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As you see here, your going to have to work really hard and a heck of a lot harder, to convince anyone with even a little common sense, that feeding another nation, is good for the American economy, then we can discuss Americans that have been displaced in this welfare nation.
I am attempting to do just that. But it seems to be an uphill battle.
Put some numbers to it for us, to show us what goes around, comes around, in your lame theory.
Yet, you conveniently left out the most important part of your debate, that I questioned.
Why? Because it doesn't fit your agenda?
You didn't pass math class?
National Economics 101 was not your best subject?
Put some real numbers to your theory!!
Until then, it will always be an uphill battle for you, with no chance or tactics to win the battle you have chosen.
Yet, you conveniently left out the most important part of your debate, that I questioned.
Put some real numbers to your theory!!
Until then, it will always be an uphill battle for you, with no chance or tactics to win the battle you have chosen.
Each year something north of $300 billion flows out of the U.S. in the form of remittances. Virtually none flows back in. Here is a passage from a World Bank report that I believe answers your question:
Quote:
Newly available data show that remittance flows to developing countries reached $328 billion in 2008, larger than our previous estimate of $305 billion.
Is this helpful to you? I don't think it adds to or detracts from the validity of what I've been saying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow
Why? Because it doesn't fit your agenda?
You didn't pass math class?
National Economics 101 was not your best subject?
Why are you so caught up on my education? Would it matter whether I admitted to being a highschool dropout posting from a state prison in central Illinois? Or maybe I would have more credibility if I claimed that I've taken seven different econ courses in various degree programs at three different universities? What difference does it make? Talk is cheap on the Internet machine.
Each year something north of $300 billion flows out of the U.S. in the form of remittances. Virtually none flows back in. Here is a passage from a World Bank report that I believe answers your question:
Is this helpful to you? I don't think it adds to or detracts from the validity of what I've been saying.
Why are you so caught up on my education? Would it matter whether I admitted to being a highschool dropout posting from a state prison in central Illinois? Or maybe I would have more credibility if I claimed that I've taken seven different econ courses in various degree programs at three different universities? What difference does it make? Talk is cheap on the Internet machine.
OK, that is a start. Where is the rest of the equation to support your theory?
That is only one number. The number leaving our economy. That's the loss, which supports my side of the economics scale.
Where is the "numbers" that support the good for America side of the equation?
Come on, you did get some math education didn't you?? Or was that held back because of the flood of illegals into our public schools?
Do you seriously want to debate this, or do you just want to troll about the subject?
OK, that is a start. Where is the rest of the equation to support your theory?
That is only one number. The number leaving our economy. That's the loss, which supports my side of the economics scale.
Where is the "numbers" that support the good for America side of the equation?
You are missing the point. Still. Now pay careful attention. Three things happen:
1) Our economy “gains” $300 billion in labor value per year. (Not all the $300B is from illegals, btw).
2) In return we "export" $300 billion in remittances, in the form of paper money mailed to the homeland of the immigrants doing the work and sending money.
3) Our federal reserve system replenishes this “exported” paper money through open market operations and other money supply controls.
Result: As long as the remittance money does not come back to America we have “gained” the $300 billion labor value in return for pieces of paper. Our money supply stays the same, and we gain $300 million worth of labor hanging drywall and picking fruit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow
Come on, you did get some math education didn't you?? Or was that held back because of the flood of illegals into our public schools?
Again with the education smack. Funny stuff, that. Most humorous indeed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow
Do you seriously want to debate this, or do you just want to troll about the subject?
Do you understand that a person is not necessarily a troll simply because they disagree with your point of view? What exactly do you think a troll is, anyway?
1) Our economy “gains” $300 billion in labor value per year. (Not all the $300B is from illegals, btw).
Ok we spent 328 billion last year on illegal labor. I get that.
That is 328 billion that was going to be spent regardless who earned it.
You forget about the added money going out of the taxpayers wallet, for them to send that $328 billion. There is another 354 billion of cost for the illegals being in America. As much as you want to deny it, that is a big factor in the take more than you get fact, not theory.
How does that help the American worker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey cabal
2) In return we "export" $300 billion in remittances, in the form of paper money mailed to the homeland of the immigrants doing the work and sending money.
OK, now they send & spend money someplace that is not within America. That hurts the American businesses and the circulation of American currency within America, that would benefit Americans and America, not some 3rd world country, where it never comes back. this lessens the worth of our dollar, globally.
How does that help America and Americans?
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey cabal
3) Our federal reserve system replenishes this “exported” paper money through open market operations and other money supply controls.
This is where you lose us...
Open market, from Mexico and Latin America?
You mean free trade with the countries the money is going to?
Where are your numbers that show more money coming in, than goes out?
"other supply controls" What is that? Something made up to sound good?
Where are your numbers to go with this unspecified vague phrase.
Can you be more specific?
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey cabal
Result: As long as the remittance money does not come back to America we have “gained” the $300 billion labor value in return for pieces of paper. Our money supply stays the same, and we gain $300 million worth of labor hanging drywall and picking fruit.
So we paid 328 billion, and got 300 million worth of value???
We have gained absolutely nothing. In fact we have lost way more than the 328 billion, when you factor in the total cost to each American taxpayer, for illegal aliens being here. Then add the unemployment payments made to Americans those without work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey cabal
Do you understand that a person is not necessarily a troll simply because they disagree with your point of view? What exactly do you think a troll is, anyway?
You skating the facts and numbers to back-up your theory, your trolling with a fishing line, waiting for a bite.
OK, now they send & spend money someplace that is not within America. That hurts the American businesses and the circulation of American currency within America, that would benefit Americans and America, not some 3rd world country, where it never comes back. this lessens the worth of our dollar, globally.
How does that help America and Americans?
Once the $300 billion paper currency leaves the U.S. it does not help our economy, or hurt it. But the Fed uses various money supply processes and controls to replace the $300 billion with a new $300 billion in paper currency. One of the Fed processes is called open market operations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow
This is where you lose us...
Open market, from Mexico and Latin America?
You mean free trade with the countries the money is going to?
Where are your numbers that show more money coming in, than goes out?
One of the Fed money supply controls is called open market operations. It has nothing to do with free trade with Mexico and Latin America.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow
"other supply controls" What is that? Something made up to sound good?
Where are your numbers to go with this unspecified vague phrase.
Can you be more specific?
The operation of the Federal Reserve System (the Fed) is a bit complicated. I don't think we are ready for that yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow
So we paid 328 billion, and got 300 million worth of value??? We have gained absolutely nothing.
First, the $328B and the $300B refer to the same thing: remittances. One figure is rounded and the othe is not. As for what we've gained, see above. Better yet, I will add another post with a more straightforward explanation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow
In fact we have lost way more than the 328 billion, when you factor in the total cost to each American taxpayer, for illegal aliens being here. Then add the unemployment payments made to Americans those without work.
Oh, I thought we were talking about remittances.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow
You skating the facts and numbers to back-up your theory, your trolling with a fishing line, waiting for a bite.
I am not exactly sure what skating the facts means. And you are not exactly sure what trolling means.
The questions above lead me to believe that some are still having difficulties grasping the concept. Let me see if I can simplify this explanation even further.
Immigrants—both legal and illegal—work in the U.S. earning several trillion dollars each year.
Immigrants send $300 billion in paper currency back to their respective homelands.
The $300 billion paper currency does not return to the U.S. But the value of the labor remains here. (This is key. Read these two sentences several times.)
Our federal reserve system then replenishes the $300 billion in paper currency through various processes and money supply controls, including a process called open market operations.
Summary: We’ve lost $300 billion in paper currency (sent to homelands). We’ve gained $300 billion in paper currency (the Fed expanded our money supply). We’ve kept the $300 billion labor value of the immigrants—the time they worked to earn the money they sent to their homelands. The $300 billion labor value of the immigrants was paid for by the Fed expanding our money supply to fit the hole left by remittances.
Even Simpler Summary: We break even on the currency: $300 billion gets mailed to Mexico, India, China, etc. and the Fed introduces a new $300 billion to replace it. All the work done by immigrants—picking fruit and hanging drywall—is a “gain” for our economy.
It's not adding up.
Are you trying to compare to the gold standard?
They take way more than is given back.
When paper money is produced with no backing(gold standard), the more of it that leaves the country, makes our paper dollar worth less and less. It does not stay in circulation.
Our net worth, is transferred to another nation. Raising theirs and lowering ours.
With money leaving that your calling remittances, it has a cause and effect.
In fact we have lost way more than the 328 billion, when you factor in the total cost to each American taxpayer, for illegal aliens being here. Then add the unemployment payments made to Americans those without work.
It does not add up. The cost out weight the benefits, to the American taxpayer.
It's not adding up.
Are you trying to compare to the gold standard?
They take way more than is given back.
When paper money is produced with no backing(gold standard), the more of it that leaves the country, makes our paper dollar worth less and less. It does not stay in circulation.
Our net worth, is transferred to another nation. Raising theirs and lowering ours.
With money leaving that your calling remittances, it has a cause and effect.
In fact we have lost way more than the 328 billion, when you factor in the total cost to each American taxpayer, for illegal aliens being here. Then add the unemployment payments made to Americans those without work.
It does not add up. The cost out weight the benefits, to the American taxpayer.
Sorry Bentbo. I cannot simplify the explanation any further. This will just have to be one of those concepts that remains beyond your grasp.
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