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We wouldn’t need to “redefine” the 14th Amendment. We would only need to interpret it as the framers intended. The purpose of the amendment was to ensure citizenship to the offspring of freed slaves; not to allow foreigners who have no legal presence, and certainly no allegiance, to exploit their children and the taxpayers of this country.
So, you're not a strict Constitutionalist in the sense that the Constitution says what it says? You're inclinded to agree with "interpreting" the Constitution based upon what someone thinks the drafters meant?
What immigration laws in the 1620’s did your ancestors violate?
That's just the point. There WERE no immigration laws. There were no restrictions on who could come here, so everyone was "illegal" or, conversely, they were all "legal."
If the fact that we now have laws which outline standards for coming here is the problem, why not just abolish those laws and once again open the doors? That would certainly end the illegal problem, wouldn't it?
That's just the point. There WERE no immigration laws. There were no restrictions on who could come here, so everyone was "illegal" or, conversely, they were all "legal."
If the fact that we now have laws which outline standards for coming here is the problem, why not just abolish those laws and once again open the doors? That would certainly end the illegal problem, wouldn't it?
But that was THEN. Now, we DO have immigration laws, and they should be enforced.
So, you're not a strict Constitutionalist in the sense that the Constitution says what it says? You're inclinded to agree with "interpreting" the Constitution based upon what someone thinks the drafters meant?
We'll have to agree to disagree on that.
The intent of the framers is quite explicit. Sadly, the 14th Amendment is now being misinterpreted, resulting in millions of foreigners abusing the taxpayers of this country. I really don’t understand how you can condone this.
But that was THEN. Now, we DO have immigration laws, and they should be enforced.
Yes, they SHOULD be enforced, but examining the practicalites of that leaves one gasping for breath.
We have several THOUSANDS of miles of borders and ocean front. All of it simply cannot be sealed off totally. It's a practical impossibility which everyone should know. But, so long as there's an opening somewhere, somebody will come through it. That's just a fact of life every nation deals with, but it's an especially vexing problem for nations like ours which are continental in scope. The bottom line is that it simply is not possible to prevent anyone from coming here if they want to and we could easily spend ourselves right into the poor house in a failed attempt to do it. Consquently, something else must be tried which has a reasonable chance of success.
Ok, you may say, let's start by expelling all those 12-20 million illegals already here (depending upon whose numbers you chose).
Think about that for a moment. Think of the resources available and what resources would be required to identify them, find them, round them up, hold them (including providing temporary shelter, food and basic medical care) and what would be necessary to transport them to the border (I'll give you hint on that. It has been estimated that it would take fleet of busses which stretches from San Francico to Alaska and there aren't that many busses in the whole world). And, consider that millions of them do NOT come from Mexico, so what do we do with them? Dump 'em in Mexico and let them handle it? I doubt the Mexican's would allow that. Or, are you willing to bear the cost of flying them home?
Plus, there's this to consider in relation to Mexico: For the past hundred years or so, Del Norte (that's us) has been Mexico's safety valve. The ability to come here, even illegally, and work is the only thing which has prevented Mexico from sliding into chaos, just as it did during their revolutionary period (roughly, 1910-1922). During that time, the violence regularly spilled over the border and the lawlessness along that border related to the wars in Mexico made it practically ungovernable. Anybody want to go back to that? Would anyone care if the citizens of Mexico, unable to come here any more, revolted and installed a Communist government or one like Chavez's in Venezuela? It could happen and, given how susceptible people are to demogogery when they're scared and hungery, it's likely. Would that be better than we have now? How?
The inescapable fact is that we have little option but choke down our revulsion and welcome those now here with open arms. In other word, amnesty. Nothing else is practical.
But, in return for that, we really do have to remove the primary incentive for others to follow; jobs. Unless we have the courage and resolve to jail the CEO's of companies which knowingly hire illegals, and make it hurt, there will be no solution to this problem. It's only when they know for a fact that they will not better themselves by coming here that they'll never make the attempt in the first place.
Yes, they SHOULD be enforced, but examining the practicalites of that leaves one gasping for breath.
We have several THOUSANDS of miles of borders and ocean front. All of it simply cannot be sealed off totally. It's a practical impossibility which everyone should know. But, so long as there's an opening somewhere, somebody will come through it. That's just a fact of life every nation deals with, but it's an especially vexing problem for nations like ours which are continental in scope. The bottom line is that it simply is not possible to prevent anyone from coming here if they want to and we could easily spend ourselves right into the poor house in a failed attempt to do it. Consquently, something else must be tried which has a reasonable chance of success.
Ok, you may say, let's start by expelling all those 12-20 million illegals already here (depending upon whose numbers you chose).
Think about that for a moment. Think of the resources available and what resources would be required to identify them, find them, round them up, hold them (including providing temporary shelter, food and basic medical care) and what would be necessary to transport them to the border (I'll give you hint on that. It has been estimated that it would take fleet of busses which stretches from San Francico to Alaska and there aren't that many busses in the whole world). And, consider that millions of them do NOT come from Mexico, so what do we do with them? Dump 'em in Mexico and let them handle it? I doubt the Mexican's would allow that. Or, are you willing to bear the cost of flying them home?
Plus, there's this to consider in relation to Mexico: For the past hundred years or so, Del Norte (that's us) has been Mexico's safety valve. The ability to come here, even illegally, and work is the only thing which has prevented Mexico from sliding into chaos, just as it did during their revolutionary period (roughly, 1910-1922). During that time, the violence regularly spilled over the border and the lawlessness along that border related to the wars in Mexico made it practically ungovernable. Anybody want to go back to that? Would anyone care if the citizens of Mexico, unable to come here any more, revolted and installed a Communist government or one like Chavez's in Venezuela? It could happen and, given how susceptible people are to demogogery when they're scared and hungery, it's likely. Would that be better than we have now? How?
The inescapable fact is that we have little option but choke down our revulsion and welcome those now here with open arms. In other word, amnesty. Nothing else is practical.
But, in return for that, we really do have to remove the primary incentive for others to follow; jobs. Unless we have the courage and resolve to jail the CEO's of companies which knowingly hire illegals, and make it hurt, there will be no solution to this problem. It's only when they know for a fact that they will not better themselves by coming here that they'll never make the attempt in the first place.
So, we should simply throw in the towel, and allow anyone who manages to breach our border security to have legal residence in this country? We can send men to the moon, but we don’t have the wherewithal to secure our borders? We can have our troops protecting the borders in foreign lands, but we can’t have them protect the borders of their own country? I don’t believe that.
Granted, some will manage to enter illegally. However, if we didn’t announce to the world that we are a doormat, and that we will punish our border agents if they dare defend themselves, we could curtail illegal immigration. How many people attempt to enter N. Korea illegally; or Iran? I am not suggesting we employ draconian tactics against those entering our country illegally. However, we must end this insane open borders fiasco. By failing to secure our borders, we have made it ridiculously easy for any terrorist or miscreant to enter at will. This is not simply an issue of preventing Mexicans from coming here to work; it’s an issue of national security.
If we enforce ALL of our laws, we would not have massive illegal immigration. We would also not have to deport 12-20 million; they would self-deport. If they are prevented from working in this country, and are denied benefits and services, they would have no recourse but to return home.
We can’t continue to be Mexico’s safety valve. There comes a time when a nation must stand on its own two feet. Now is the time for Mexico. Perhaps if 10% of the citizens of Mexico were not living here illegally, they could use some of the “hard work” being touted to improve conditions in their own country.
Furthermore, the violence in Mexico is already spilling over into our country. If we don’t secure our borders, we will have mutilations and decapitations on a daily basis, just as they occur in Mexico.
Regarding the “other than Mexican” illegals – most entered through Mexico, so they can be returned there and find their way home the same way they found their way into this country.
We have more than enough evidence to prove that amnesty does not work. We granted amnesty to an estimated 3 million in 1986, with the promise that it would be the “final” amnesty, and that our laws would be enforced, and our borders would be secured. None of those promises were honored. Consequently, we now have 20+ million illegal aliens living in this country. If we grant another amnesty, it will only be an incentive for more illegal immigration. In twenty years, we will have 80 million illegal aliens in this country, and they will not only expect another amnesty, they will demand one. We simply can’t afford to take that risk.
I agree that we must remove the magnets – jobs, birthright citizenship, and freebies.
Why is that a joke? Didn't all of us here gain our citizenship the same way?
My forebears came here univited and without any controls at all back in the 1620's. In other words, they were "illegals," why should I get to stay under such an idea? We've now had several generations of "anchor" babies and, if that process were to be deemed grounds for denying citizenship, why would it not apply to all their offspring, including you?
Oh good grief. Many had ancestors who came by slave ship, are you condoning the buying of slaves just because it happened hundreds of years ago?
What of those whose ancestors were moved to reservations so your ancestors could take their land? Are you condoning that be allowed today?
The long ago past is the long ago past. You cannot go back and change it but there are all kinds of things that happened in the past that don't justify anything today.
Yes, they
Think about that for a moment. Think of the resources available and what resources would be required to identify them, find them, round them up, hold them (including providing temporary shelter, food and basic medical care) and what would be necessary to transport them to the border (I'll give you hint on that. It has been estimated that it would take fleet of busses which stretches from San Francico to Alaska and there aren't that many busses in the whole world). And, consider that millions of them do NOT come from Mexico, so what do we do with them? Dump 'em in Mexico and let them handle it? I doubt the Mexican's would allow that. Or, are you willing to bear the cost of flying them home?
Plus, there's this to consider in relation to Mexico: For the past hundred years or so, Del Norte (that's us) has been Mexico's safety valve. The ability to come here, even illegally, and work is the only thing which has prevented Mexico from sliding into chaos, just as it did during their revolutionary period (roughly, 1910-1922). During that time, the violence regularly spilled over the border and the lawlessness along that border related to the wars in Mexico made it practically ungovernable. Anybody want to go back to that? Would anyone care if the citizens of Mexico, unable to come here any more, revolted and installed a Communist government or one like Chavez's in Venezuela? It could happen and, given how susceptible people are to demogogery when they're scared and hungery, it's likely. Would that be better than we have now? How?
We are not Mexico's safety valve, Mexico is not becoming a less dangerous country with tens of millions of it's citizens packing up and abandoning it. If anything Mexico would be better off if it's people actually saw Mexico as their future and worked to improve it. As it is, they figure why save it, why improve it, why build schools or hospitals when they can more easily pack up and get everything handed to them in the USA.
You are giving Mexicans no credit if you think the only thing they can do if not allowed to all come here is put in a Hugo Chavez type. What are you? Some kind of racist? You are saying the Mexicans are by nature nothing but Communists, but if we bribe them with easy USA citizenship, they'll control that aspect of their nature?
We don't have to round up the illegals. Their government didn't do that in order for them to all come here. They go whichever way is easier. It's easier to work and receive welfare in the USA now than it is to work in Mexico.
Make getting welfare handouts impossible and go after the employers of illegals, shut those businesses down and many will go back home. They don't even have to come up with $5000 to pay a smuggler.
Yes, they SHOULD be enforced, but examining the practicalites of that leaves one gasping for breath.
We have several THOUSANDS of miles of borders and ocean front. All of it simply cannot be sealed off totally. It's a practical impossibility which everyone should know. But, so long as there's an opening somewhere, somebody will come through it. That's just a fact of life every nation deals with, but it's an especially vexing problem for nations like ours which are continental in scope. The bottom line is that it simply is not possible to prevent anyone from coming here if they want to and we could easily spend ourselves right into the poor house in a failed attempt to do it. Consquently, something else must be tried which has a reasonable chance of success.
Ok, you may say, let's start by expelling all those 12-20 million illegals already here (depending upon whose numbers you chose).
Think about that for a moment. Think of the resources available and what resources would be required to identify them, find them, round them up, hold them (including providing temporary shelter, food and basic medical care) and what would be necessary to transport them to the border (I'll give you hint on that. It has been estimated that it would take fleet of busses which stretches from San Francico to Alaska and there aren't that many busses in the whole world). And, consider that millions of them do NOT come from Mexico, so what do we do with them? Dump 'em in Mexico and let them handle it? I doubt the Mexican's would allow that. Or, are you willing to bear the cost of flying them home?
Plus, there's this to consider in relation to Mexico: For the past hundred years or so, Del Norte (that's us) has been Mexico's safety valve. The ability to come here, even illegally, and work is the only thing which has prevented Mexico from sliding into chaos, just as it did during their revolutionary period (roughly, 1910-1922). During that time, the violence regularly spilled over the border and the lawlessness along that border related to the wars in Mexico made it practically ungovernable. Anybody want to go back to that? Would anyone care if the citizens of Mexico, unable to come here any more, revolted and installed a Communist government or one like Chavez's in Venezuela? It could happen and, given how susceptible people are to demogogery when they're scared and hungery, it's likely. Would that be better than we have now? How?
The inescapable fact is that we have little option but choke down our revulsion and welcome those now here with open arms. In other word, amnesty. Nothing else is practical.
But, in return for that, we really do have to remove the primary incentive for others to follow; jobs. Unless we have the courage and resolve to jail the CEO's of companies which knowingly hire illegals, and make it hurt, there will be no solution to this problem. It's only when they know for a fact that they will not better themselves by coming here that they'll never make the attempt in the first place.
You are talking out of both sides of your mouth here, saying on the one hand we must continue to be Mexico's "safety valve" or else the country will slide into chaos, then on the other hand offering suggestions on how to keep Mexican illegals from coming here.
You can't have it both ways. Obviously you want them here for whatever reason.
This country has no responsibility...none...to Mexico. Mexico is Mexico's responsibility. If chaos ensues, good. Maybe it needs to happen. Maybe having a "safety valve" to the United States is what has kept things bad in Mexico. But the fact is that my state (Texas) is being overrun by Hispanic illegals, mostly Mexican, who are demanding that we change for them. As someone whose grandparents were all legal immigrants, I find this attitude outrageous and unacceptable.
My grandparents worked every day to assimilate in a country where not only was the language foreign, but the prevailing religion and culture was too. (We are Jewish.) They never asked for special treatment, never asked anybody to kowtow to them. And why should anyone do that? THEY are the newbies. They are the ones who have to assimilate.
Illegals are bankrupting this state and ruining society. Whites, blacks, Hispanics, Asians, etc. alike are fed up with this gimme-gimme-gimme attitude. Illegals OUT. We do not need them. Our houses got built, dishes got washed, and grass got cut without them. We can do it ourselves, thank you very much.
Yes, The inescapable fact is that we have little option but choke down our revulsion and welcome those now here with open arms. In other word, amnesty. Nothing else is practical.
You forgot that "family reunification" part which means they're also invited to bring in whatever number of their long-lost relatives they wish to bring in. Of course that means elderly parents, grandparents, even great grandparents if they still have them.
In fact let's just bring in 90% of that entire country. And Haiti too because it's also geographically close and they'd like to come. Maybe 95% of them.
And why let geography stop anyone. Most Central Americans would have no problem with making a train or bus ride to the USA border, and shall we invite in all of them? Provide all the free medical care, food stamps, housing assistance they too will need?
Talk about fantasy.
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