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Well it didn't happen with the past administration and it doesn't seem it will happen with the current administration. Why even the unions are starting to get behind the illegals as they probably see some new fodder for membership. Reality is we are not enforcing our immigration policies and we are giving social welfare benefits to them. They have no reason to go home and no reason to fear being caught. The risk of coming here with its rewards far outways them staying in their country.
As I said, Americans aren't going to be fooled again and we will make sure that our government does the right thing for Americans and our country this time around. Mark my word!
As Janet Napolitano said of the border fence while she was Governor of Arizona, "Show me a 40 ft fence and I'll show you a 41 ft ladder."
First, you shouldn't be quoting a moron such as Janet Napolitano because it makes you look foolish. What next? Are you going to start quoting the 3 Stooges?
As if we're going to start seeing hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens running around with 41 foot long ladders. That would be a ladder taller than a 4 story building!. What a hilarious sight that would be! I guess that wouldn't be too conspicuous to our Border Patrol agents, now would it? "Hey Frank, there's another Mexican approaching the border fence with a 41 foot ladder. We better keep a close eye on him. I think he might be up to something".
The point is not that the illegals should be here and be welcomed with open arms, but that we have so many of them now that our options are limited. We have been invaded, and successfully so. That's not a statement of support for illegals on my part, but a simple statement of fact. We may all wish it weren't so, but is and it's far better to face reality than to keep on dreaming.
And, on the issue of babies born here, the law says what the law says. Accept it. They ARE US citizens and DO have every right to remain here as you do and every protection under the Constitution that you enjoy. I doubt that's going to change.
To the poster above who mentioned the previous amnesty: You're right. We did do that once before, but in spite of promises to the contrary, nothing was done to make it more difficult to come here during the ensuing years. Neither the Reagan, Bush, Clinton or Bush adminstrations made any real effort to control entry across our borders (neither did Congress) and, in fact, seems to have turned a blind eye to the influx of cheap labor. It would be easy to advance the premise that they did so for the benefit of their corporate benefactors and I don't think that would be far from the truth. That the border has essentially remained wide open now for nearly 30 years is not an accident.
However, no matter how or why it happened, it did and we are left to clean up the mess. Of course, the immediate emotional response is "Kick 'em all out," but the practicalities of doing that are daunting to the point of impossibility. We simply cannot do it and, even if we adopted new polices which strangled off the jobs they come here for, it's unlikely a great many of them would leave voluntarily because, without income, they can't afford to leave. I dare say no rational person would expect to see millions of starving families trudging south on foot, so we'd still have to find some way to identify, collect, hold and transport them to the border.
If anyone has a plan for doing that, I'd like to hear it. The quick answer is "Use the military." Well, just how many people do you think we have in uniform and how many of them are suited by training and experience for the task? And, how many are actually here, in CONUS, and available for use? Not nearly as many as you might suppose and far from enough. It sounds good on paper, but when you sit down, examine what's available and where to put them to do what, you find that there would be a huge, huge shortage of troops and equipment, even if we withdrew every soldier from our many overseas commitments.
The bottom line is that they are here and there's not much we can do about it. One poster likened that to "throwing in the towel," but I think it's more of a case of facing the reality of the situation and doing the best you can. Dreaming that it might not be as it is isn't a solution. It's sticking your head into the sand.
Amnesty is a necessity, but as with in the 80's, it won't work unless it's accompanied by a real, honest, legitimate effort to prevent it happening again and that STARTS with criminalizing the hiring of illegals. As a companion to that, there must be some kind of national ID (I know, that offends my libertarian soul too) to separate us from them. Without that, employers would have no way to determine who is, or is not, hireable.
Frankly, I doubt that will happen. Yes, we'll get an national ID, but strict legal sanctions against employers is a pipe dream so long as Washington runs on money. I suspect we'll also get a huge bill for the cost of "beefing" up security on the border, but it won't work. As Janet Napolitano said of the border fence while she was Governor of Arizona, "Show me a 40 ft fence and I'll show you a 41 ft ladder."
The bolded is the part is the basis of your approach to this. This government, the US government, can do a lot of things, as it has shown in history. Greatly and drastically reducing the illegal immigrant population is one of those things that could be accomplished. The thing is, they either don't want to do it or they do not know how to do it even though many people have presented legitimate ideas and plans to build upon. People who use the "They are here, there is nothing to do" argument sound as if they do not understand the power of how the government can impose actions when really has the goal of doing that. For years we've had the government doing things that we wish they wouldn't do, that are drastic and seem ridiculous to the public, but when the people are asking them to deport illegal immigrants or crack down on illegal immigration, all of a sudden people think, "The government just won't be able to do it," and dismiss it as impossible.This is the US government we are talking about. The country that somehow always seems to pull tricks out of its sleeves to accomplish things that leave people like, "WTF?" or "How can they do this?" Now, when the people are asking them to do something, it's like they don't know where to start.
Also Stillkit, you are assuming things about people who are asking the government to do a better job at fighting illegal immigration. You say, "Using the military is the quick answer," or something like that. I rarely hear people talk about bringing the military into this. So, what are you talking about? I don't hear people talking about bringing soldiers into workplaces and conducting raids. Or bringing tanks into neighborhoods and apprehending illegal immigrants. It's actually the exact opposite, more peaceful and less violent - enforce the laws, provide verification services, penalize employers and even property owners, secure the borders, and a lot of other principles. You seem like you don't have much knowledge and understanding of what people who are fighting against these ridiculous illegal immigrant numbers are saying and promoting. How can you argue here if you don't even know what they are saying? You seem so defeated, blind and like you are willing to lie down to this.
The bolded is the part is the basis of your approach to this. This government, the US government, can do a lot of things, as it has shown in history. Greatly and drastically reducing the illegal immigrant population is one of those things that could be accomplished. The thing is, they either don't want to do it or they do not know how to do it even though many people have presented legitimate ideas and plans to build upon. People who use the "They are here, there is nothing to do" argument sound as if they do not understand the power of how the government can impose actions when really has the goal of doing that. For years we've had the government doing things that we wish they wouldn't do, that are drastic and seem ridiculous to the public, but when the people are asking them to deport illegal immigrants or crack down on illegal immigration, all of a sudden people think, "The government just won't be able to do it," and dismiss it as impossible.This is the US government we are talking about. The country that somehow always seems to pull tricks out of its sleeves to accomplish things that leave people like, "WTF?" or "How can they do this?" Now, when the people are asking them to do something, it's like they don't know where to start.
Also Stillkit, you are assuming things about people who are asking the government to do a better job at fighting illegal immigration. You say, "Using the military is the quick answer," or something like that. I rarely hear people talk about bringing the military into this. So, what are you talking about? I don't hear people talking about bringing soldiers into workplaces and conducting raids. Or bringing tanks into neighborhoods and apprehending illegal immigrants. It's actually the exact opposite, more peaceful and less violent - enforce the laws, provide verification services, penalize employers and even property owners, secure the borders, and a lot of other principles. You seem like you don't have much knowledge and understanding of what people who are fighting against these ridiculous illegal immigrant numbers are saying and promoting. How can you argue here if you don't even know what they are saying? You seem so defeated, blind and like you are willing to lie down to this.
You'll note that the comments of mine you highlighted were in relation to "kick 'em all out." I've heard it proposed to use the military as a part of that, in addition to securing the border. It may not have been said here, on these boards, but it has been proposed. After all, who else BUT the military has the resources? Law enforcement? Only if they drop everything else they're doing in the meantime.
I don't mean to suggest that we can't do a better job of securing the border, though I will say categorically that it can't be "sealed," nor that we couldn't do a better job of enforcing the laws now and making this country a much less desireable place for illegals to come to. Of course we can and must. But, that won't solve the problem of those millions already here and that's the problem which is which this thread is about.
That's the problem for which we have few options. You may still believe that government can do anything it likes, but I don't. In any case, I don't think it can do that, nor am I convinced most of us would want it to when we see what all that entails. It's easy to blurt out an emotional reaction, but something far different when you get down to the nuts and bolts.
You'll note that the comments of mine you highlighted were in relation to "kick 'em all out." I've heard it proposed to use the military as a part of that, in addition to securing the border. It may not have been said here, on these boards, but it has been proposed. After all, who else BUT the military has the resources? Law enforcement? Only if they drop everything else they're doing in the meantime.
I don't mean to suggest that we can't do a better job of securing the border, though I will say categorically that it can't be "sealed," nor that we couldn't do a better job of enforcing the laws now and making this country a much less desireable place for illegals to come to. Of course we can and must. But, that won't solve the problem of those millions already here and that's the problem which is which this thread is about.
That's the problem for which we have few options. You may still believe that government can do anything it likes, but I don't. In any case, I don't think it can do that, nor am I convinced most of us would want it to when we see what all that entails. It's easy to blurt out an emotional reaction, but something far different when you get down to the nuts and bolts.
You're making it complicated getting them removed when the solution is simple...e-verify. That along with denying any taxpayer benefits and re-interpreting the birthright citizenship clause will leave us with very few illegals remaining here. We must fight for all of these changes as true patriotic Americans. We know it won't be easy to get our government to cooperate and do the right thing but united we can do this. It is naysayers like yourself that are creating a stumbling block to our success.
Last edited by chicagonut; 01-02-2010 at 08:26 PM..
<< if those babies, children, are born here via, by-way-of, illegal immigration, should they be US Citizens? If the obtainment of that right is accomplished by illegal means then should it "count?" >>
That's an interesting question. Ordinarily, any benefits gained through illegal means are invalid.
You'll note that the comments of mine you highlighted were in relation to "kick 'em all out." I've heard it proposed to use the military as a part of that, in addition to securing the border. It may not have been said here, on these boards, but it has been proposed. After all, who else BUT the military has the resources? Law enforcement? Only if they drop everything else they're doing in the meantime.
I don't mean to suggest that we can't do a better job of securing the border, though I will say categorically that it can't be "sealed," nor that we couldn't do a better job of enforcing the laws now and making this country a much less desireable place for illegals to come to. Of course we can and must. But, that won't solve the problem of those millions already here and that's the problem which is which this thread is about.
That's the problem for which we have few options. You may still believe that government can do anything it likes, but I don't. In any case, I don't think it can do that, nor am I convinced most of us would want it to when we see what all that entails. It's easy to blurt out an emotional reaction, but something far different when you get down to the nuts and bolts.
You're making it complicated getting them removed when the solution is simple...e-verify. That along with denying any taxpayer benefits and re-interpreting the birthright citizenship clause will leave us with very few illegals remaining here. We must fight for all of these changes as true patriotic Americans. We know it won't be easy to get our government to cooperate and do the right thing but united we can do this. It is people naysayers like yourself that are creating a stumbling block to our success.
The current failure rate is between 6-10%. This would translate to millions of people affected across the US. There are currently 17 million bad records in the database. Clearly, it's not that simple.
It does a poor job explaining the 6% failure rate in this article.
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