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You'll note that the comments of mine you highlighted were in relation to "kick 'em all out." I've heard it proposed to use the military as a part of that, in addition to securing the border. It may not have been said here, on these boards, but it has been proposed. After all, who else BUT the military has the resources? Law enforcement? Only if they drop everything else they're doing in the meantime.
I don't mean to suggest that we can't do a better job of securing the border, though I will say categorically that it can't be "sealed," nor that we couldn't do a better job of enforcing the laws now and making this country a much less desireable place for illegals to come to. Of course we can and must. But, that won't solve the problem of those millions already here and that's the problem which is which this thread is about.
That's the problem for which we have few options. You may still believe that government can do anything it likes, but I don't. In any case, I don't think it can do that, nor am I convinced most of us would want it to when we see what all that entails. It's easy to blurt out an emotional reaction, but something far different when you get down to the nuts and bolts.
I'm blurting out emotional reactions? And I think many of us here and people across the country are familiar with and have studied up on the issues surrounding immigration law enforcement. Once again, you are making assumptions about people and talking as if those who are standing up against this have no clue, but you do.
You're making it complicated getting them removed when the solution is simple...e-verify. That along with denying any taxpayer benefits and re-interpreting the birthright citizenship clause will leave us with very few illegals remaining here. We must fight for all of these changes as true patriotic Americans. We know it won't be easy to get our government to cooperate and do the right thing but united we can do this. It is naysayers like yourself that are creating a stumbling block to our success.
That's the thing, people like the guy/girl that we are replying to make it seem as though it is impossible. The question is whether it will be done or not. That is what the people are waiting to see, if the government will take the steps. They have every means and ability to begin enforcing at least at a beginning level, but sometimes and in some places even that isn't being done. It's not like it is impossible to report illegal immigration when it is discovered by local agencies, hospitals, employers or local law enforcement to federal agencies. The thing is that it is just not being done. It's not the act that is hard, there's just corruption that isn't allowing it to happen.
Law It's easy to blurt out an emotional reaction, but something far different when you get down to the nuts and bolts.
What's emotional about wanting our immigration laws enforced? How about our other laws? Is it emotional to want our laws against murder, rape, robbery, burglary, car theft, etc. to be enforced?
People always prefer emotionality when it comes to immigrants, especially in hard times. Historically, it's as predictable as the sunrise.
Looking back across our 200+ years, we find that even Benjamin Franklin opposed immigration from Germany because he was convinced they couldn't assimilate. Later, it was the Irish who were ruining America because they'd turn it Papist. Then, it was the flood of immigrants from Southeast Europe who would do us in. In California, violence against Chinese was accepted because there were too many of them. In New York City, the draft riots in the 1860's quickly turned against free blacks. Today, it's hispanics. See? Nothing has changed. Each successive wave of immigrants were met with fear and apprehension, yet the nation not only survived, but prospered. It will this time too.
According to the 2000 census, there were 37.5 million people here who were born someplace else. Yes, in raw numbers, that's an all-time high. They amount to a little over 10% of the total population. Yet, we find that in 1910, foreign born residents accounted for 15% of the population and they didn't "ruin" America. In revolutionary New England, fully 1/4 were Irish born and another 1/4 were first generation Irish and that was the seed-bed of Independence! Who do we think started the Revolution? It was immigrants!
Additionally, it is only the current influx of immigrants (legal or otherwise) which prevents the decline of our population. Native born women have roughly 1.9 children each, not enough to meet the replacement rate of 2.1. In other words, without all these foreigners here, the United States would be sliding down toward 2nd or 3rd world status in terms of population.
And, just what is meant by "ruining" America? Afraid they'll turn it into a welfare state? Frankly, I think that would be a hard case to prove as we've had welfare for generations now, long before the current flood of Hispanic's arrived. Crime, that it's it! They'll kill, rape and rob us all! Oddly, though the number of foreigners here has increased, the rate in the growth of crime statistics has actually fallen in recent years, so I guess that argument is out.
So just what ARE people afraid of? How WILL they "ruin" America? I've got my own idea about what drives such fear, but I'd rather hear what everyone else has to say on the subject.
People always prefer emotionality when it comes to immigrants, especially in hard times. Historically, it's as predictable as the sunrise.
Looking back across our 200+ years, we find that even Benjamin Franklin opposed immigration from Germany because he was convinced they couldn't assimilate. Later, it was the Irish who were ruining America because they'd turn it Papist. Then, it was the flood of immigrants from Southeast Europe who would do us in. In California, violence against Chinese was accepted because there were too many of them. In New York City, the draft riots in the 1860's quickly turned against free blacks. Today, it's hispanics. See? Nothing has changed. Each successive wave of immigrants were met with fear and apprehension, yet the nation not only survived, but prospered. It will this time too.
According to the 2000 census, there were 37.5 million people here who were born someplace else. Yes, in raw numbers, that's an all-time high. They amount to a little over 10% of the total population. Yet, we find that in 1910, foreign born residents accounted for 15% of the population and they didn't "ruin" America. In revolutionary New England, fully 1/4 were Irish born and another 1/4 were first generation Irish and that was the seed-bed of Independence! Who do we think started the Revolution? It was immigrants!
Additionally, it is only the current influx of immigrants (legal or otherwise) which prevents the decline of our population. Native born women have roughly 1.9 children each, not enough to meet the replacement rate of 2.1. In other words, without all these foreigners here, the United States would be sliding down toward 2nd or 3rd world status in terms of population.
And, just what is meant by "ruining" America? Afraid they'll turn it into a welfare state? Frankly, I think that would be a hard case to prove as we've had welfare for generations now, long before the current flood of Hispanic's arrived. Crime, that it's it! They'll kill, rape and rob us all! Oddly, though the number of foreigners here has increased, the rate in the growth of crime statistics has actually fallen in recent years, so I guess that argument is out.
So just what ARE people afraid of? How WILL they "ruin" America? I've got my own idea about what drives such fear, but I'd rather hear what everyone else has to say on the subject.
But we aren't talking about immigrants here!!! This is about illegal immigration. My God!! It is about uncontrolled population growth and Americans are procreating at replacement levels so you are wrong. Ideally we need to be reducing our population growth, not increasing it according to the experts. If at some point in time we need more people added to our population then we can import them LEGALLY. What part of that don't you understand?
Why should one ethnic group be favored over another anyway? Don't you want diversity? Isn't it kind of racist to just vouch for one ethnic group to come here in as many numbers as they want without any thought given to other groups? That isn't what this country is about when it comes to immigration. First we need the best and the brightest from all ethnic groups and then whatever less educated from all ethnic groups but all of this should be based on our needs, not the needs of immigrants.
But we aren't talking about immigrants here!!! This is about illegal immigration. My God!! It is about uncontrolled population growth and Americans are procreating at replacement levels so you are wrong. Ideally we need to be reducing our population growth, not increasing it according to the experts. If at some point in time we need more people added to our population then we can import them LEGALLY. What part of that don't you understand?
Why should one ethnic group be favored over another anyway? Don't you want diversity? Isn't it kind of racist to just vouch for one ethnic group to come here in as many numbers as they want without any thought given to other groups? That isn't what this country is about when it comes to immigration. First we need the best and the brightest from all ethnic groups and then whatever less educated from all ethnic groups but all of this should be based on our needs, not the needs of immigrants.
So, all the panic has nothing to do with the immigrants themselves? Just the paperwork they may or may not have? It would fine with you if 20 million Hispanics came here, so long as they have the right documentation?
I dare say that position puts you in the minority.
As for the ethnic make up of America, may I ask what level of diversity you're willing to accept? How MANY other races and ethnicities could we bring here before it begins to "harm" America? And, what would constitute harm?
So, all the panic has nothing to do with the immigrants themselves? Just the paperwork they may or may not have? It would fine with you if 20 million Hispanics came here, so long as they have the right documentation?
I dare say that position puts you in the minority.
As for the ethnic make up of America, may I ask what level of diversity you're willing to accept? How MANY other races and ethnicities could we bring here before it begins to "harm" America? And, what would constitute harm?
NO! I have a problem with ANY immigrants that don't come here legally or they let their visas expire. You act like paperwork isn't important. If that were so then we would have no immigration laws. NO! I would not be fine with immigrants coming here legally or illegally from mostly one ethnic group whether they be Hispanic, Asian or any others We need to be fair to ALL potential immigrants across the world. All ethnic groups should have equal opportunity to come here and in even numbers within our needs for their particular labor.
NO! I am not in the minority. Most Americans want legal immigration to be fair to all. This massive illegal immigration mess we have today is mostly by Hispanics. That isn't fair to other ethnic groups. If immigrants come legally like they are supposed to then we wouldn't have this situation of Hispancs dominating the numbers. That is one of the reasons we have quotas in place. It is for assimilation rather than colonization so that a foreign ethnic group doesn't dominate or dilute our culture while still striving for equal diversity among minority groups.
NO! I have a problem with ANY immigrants that don't come here legally or they let their visas expire. You act like paperwork isn't important. If that were so then we would have no immigration laws. NO! I would not be fine with immigrants coming here legally or illegally from mostly one ethnic group whether they be Hispanic, Asian or any others We need to be fair to ALL potential immigrants across the world. All ethnic groups should have equal opportunity to come here and in even numbers within our needs for their particular labor.
NO! I am not in the minority. Most Americans want legal immigration to be fair to all. This massive illegal immigration mess we have today is mostly by Hispanics. That isn't fair to other ethnic groups. If immigrants come legally like they are supposed to then we wouldn't have this situation of Hispancs dominating the numbers. That is one of the reasons we have quotas in place. It is for assimilation rather than colonization so that a foreign ethnic group doesn't dominate or dilute our culture while still striving for equal diversity among minority groups.
Our culture? How would you define "American culture?" It's a definition which escapes most people.
But we aren't talking about immigrants here!!! This is about illegal immigration. My God!! It is about uncontrolled population growth and Americans are procreating at replacement levels so you are wrong. Ideally we need to be reducing our population growth, not increasing it according to the experts. If at some point in time we need more people added to our population then we can import them LEGALLY. What part of that don't you understand?
Why should one ethnic group be favored over another anyway? Don't you want diversity? Isn't it kind of racist to just vouch for one ethnic group to come here in as many numbers as they want without any thought given to other groups? That isn't what this country is about when it comes to immigration. First we need the best and the brightest from all ethnic groups and then whatever less educated from all ethnic groups but all of this should be based on our needs, not the needs of immigrants.
Usually someone who pushes for an open border:
A. Has one or more relatives here Illegally
B. Lives in one of the very few places left in the US not feeling the impact
C. Has some type of business that allows them to benefit from dirt cheap labor
So, all the panic has nothing to do with the immigrants themselves? Just the paperwork they may or may not have? It would fine with you if 20 million Hispanics came here, so long as they have the right documentation?
I dare say that position puts you in the minority.
As for the ethnic make up of America, may I ask what level of diversity you're willing to accept? How MANY other races and ethnicities could we bring here before it begins to "harm" America? And, what would constitute harm?
For one, most of the earlier immigrants embraced America but even then it required pushing the Indians off their historic lands - so whether unlimited immigration is good or bad, it totally depends on the perspective of those having their lifestyle and culture destroyed.
Just like today's "immigrants" who refuse to learn English, believe their culture and country is superior, it's coming down to a cultural clash. They don't believe in America, they don't want to learn our culture and language.
We're becoming like the Indians because as they can tell you, when immigrants don't want to assimilate in any way, it's not so much immigration as invasion and take over.
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