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I swear I'm not psychic. I just pay attention to trends, LOL
I mean look, I don't want to pee on anyone's parade. If you believe that a gleaming utopia of like-minded conservatives awaits you in a prosperous red state with perfect weather, bike trails, and kittens, knock yourself out. I think you'll ultimately be disappointed, probably sooner rather than later, but hey, I'm not psychic as I said. Anyone has the right to live where he or she wants at the end of the day.
My issue is people who come here to bash our state to feel better about themselves and validate themselves. IL is an easy target. We get it. We all know. Your gloating isn't going to change anything for the better. I mean, I dealt with this when I moved to Berwyn some years ago and I'm dealing with it again on a state level now. So I just have very little patience for it.
That is all. Carry on and be well, and I wish everyone the best in their new state who is moving. May you find happiness and peace.
And what I have little patience for is the persistent argument that Utopia doesn't exist anywhere therefore we should just put up with living in a state that is not only in a death spiral but whose passengers continually give the drunken pilots who caused the death spiral their vote of confidence.
If there were any hope for turning this state around, we'd stay. But there isn't, so this spring we will start searching for property out of state and begin our exodus plan. "Other states are turning blue too, d3rp!" is no argument for staying in a hopelessly dysfunctional one. If I'm forced to open one of two doors, the first labeled "The Door to Hell" and the second labeled "Possibly Another Door to Hell," I'm gonna choose the second one and let you have the first one.
And what I have little patience for is the persistent argument that Utopia doesn't exist anywhere therefore we should just put up with living in a state that is not only in a death spiral but whose passengers continually give the drunken pilots who caused the death spiral their vote of confidence.
If there were any hope for turning this state around, we'd stay. But there isn't, so this spring we will start searching for property out of state and begin our exodus plan. "Other states are turning blue too, d3rp!" is no argument for staying in a hopelessly dysfunctional one. If I'm forced to open one of two doors, the first labeled "The Door to Hell" and the second labeled "Possibly Another Door to Hell," I'm gonna choose the second one and let you have the first one.
And what I have little patience for is the persistent argument that Utopia doesn't exist anywhere therefore we should just put up with living in a state that is not only in a death spiral but whose passengers continually give the drunken pilots who caused the death spiral their vote of confidence.
If there were any hope for turning this state around, we'd stay. But there isn't, so this spring we will start searching for property out of state and begin our exodus plan. "Other states are turning blue too, d3rp!" is no argument for staying in a hopelessly dysfunctional one. If I'm forced to open one of two doors, the first labeled "The Door to Hell" and the second labeled "Possibly Another Door to Hell," I'm gonna choose the second one and let you have the first one.
Agreed. I'll be the first to admit that "perfect" no longer exists in the U.S. (and may never have), but I'll take improvement over current conditions every time, if the improvement is large enough to make a move worthwhile. My back-of-the-napkin says it is, just as yours does. But I sure do wish we had better data to make decisions on.
I agree with Bru on a lot of points, especially manufacturing. There is a "hidden" cost to manufacturing in countries with lower labor and less-stringent safety and environmental laws. While the product itself may be able to be sold at a lower cost to the end consumer, the country that lost the jobs also lost the taxes paid by those jobs, which means infrastructure is replaced less often, and the "social" costs to the general population (education, crime, welfare, etc.) are higher. For a simple illustration, I believe China (including Taiwan) has produced more supertall skyscrapers in the last decade or two than the U.S. has since they first brushed the teeth on the Chrysler Building gargoyles. We are in decline, and they are in ascension, and we are paying for this to happen. Definition of Dumb. Much better said in the YouTube clip of John Goodman's scene in "The Gambler" when he talks about "The position of F You", well worth the three minutes to watch, if you're not familiar. Disclaimer: Remove the spaces in youtube, not family friendly due to language. https://www.you tube.com/watch?v=rJjKP8vYjpQ
^^ I'm all for disentangling ourselves economically from China, though not because China "stole our jobs" or some-such but because China is a malevolent actor whose economy and particularly their technical progress we should not be enabling. But that still wouldn't bring manufacturing jobs back to the US in any significant numbers for the reasons I've already noted. The only reason such notion is not considered just as absurd as claiming "we can create more jobs by reverting to an agrarian society" is because our industrial economy existed within living memory but our agrarian economy is beyond it; therefore the latter is more difficult to envision. But neither prescription is more or less realistic than the other.
This. The mafia machine politics has been around for decades and is far too powerful. It's a disgrace that multiple governors have been put in jail. Our taxes are ridiculous. We had a Republican governor that I voted for that nearly put us in junk bond status. I don't think it was entirely his fault. Corruption of that magnitude is hard to stop. Especially with our speaker of the house who keeps on getting re-elected because he takes good care of his constituents. They can't see the greater picture.
Would I leave Illinois because of the taxes? No. I have a great life here and the thought of starting over this late in life? That does not appeal to me. I guess if money was an issue I might move, but it's not. Right now my loved ones mean more to me than the high taxes. Besides, it keeps the riffraff out. We have a lot of high quality people moving out of the city into our little satellite suburb driving up the property values. So while the high taxes are annoying, there is much more to the story.
Who was it that said they love Chicago in the summer in this thread? Yep I totally agree. I love Chicago in the summer. It's a fabulous city. Winter is nice too. Ever been ice skating on the ribbon in Maggie Daley park? Chicago is magical at sunset covered by a blanket of snow with all of the regular lights and Christmas lights on. Don't get me started on the architecture, beautiful old theaters, and the food.
It's no secret that older millennials are selling their condos to buy single-family homes today; I wonder how many of them are leaving Illinois altogether? How many will leave in a few years after they get their property tax bills? If values are going up, so will their taxes.
I suspect we're seeing a temporary blip in price appreciation due to a lack of inventory and record-low interest rates, while many would-be home sellers are effectively "sheltering in place," during the winter/covid period. I expect this to be a temporary blip.
For Chicago (and Illinois) to truly thrive, it needs to attract people who are NOT from here. Who DO NOT HAVE to live here for family obligations, but who CHOOSE to move here and make a family here. That is what I believe has fundamentally change in the past 10-12 years.
I'm a native New Yorker who went to IU, and had friends who went to Illinois, Michigan, and Purdue. I learned to love the Midwest and wanted to relocate my business here after going back to New York and a stint in Texas. What better place than the heart of the Midwest at that time: Chicago.
When I graduated, Chicago was the big 10 mecca for aspiring professionals. Chicago was so much cooler than Madison, Indianapolis, Columbus, or Minneapolis in 2005.
Today, not so much...the QOL and "cool factor" spread from Chicago to those cities has narrowed greatly. What's cool in NYC or Chicago today, will makes its way to Indianapolis in a few weeks, not months or years, as it used to be.
Once some of these "legacy" northern industrial states (and cities) realize how truly mobile today's workforce (blue and white collar alike) is, and how much better the quality of life is in lower tax "red states" (for lack of a better, generic catch all), they will come to the realization that they cannot tax their way back to the positive side of the ledger. The sooner they realize it, the better.
Until then, Illinois is just delaying the inventible long slide to irrelevance and decline. Chicago has built a position of strength to its credit over the past half century, and it has enough GDP today to make it a slow death... it will be a long socioeconomic bleeding out, not an instant death blow.
The fact that this thread exists and that this broader topic is so entrenched among Illini/Chicagoans is a testament to the fact that we are all living our lives here with this feeling of decay hanging over our heads. I feel it, and if you are reading this post, you feel it too.
It's not a fun way to live. I don't know a single tax-payer who doesn't think that there is something rotten in this state and we are driving in the wrong direction.
Sadly, for the life of me, I can't find any macroeconomic statistics that show that the Chicagoland region will thrive and grow in the future, given its current course.
Hope is not a strategy.
Step 1 should be term limits for all state and local elected officials.
I mean look, I don't want to pee on anyone's parade. If you believe that a gleaming utopia of like-minded conservatives awaits you in a prosperous red state with perfect weather, bike trails, and kittens, knock yourself out. I think you'll ultimately be disappointed, probably sooner rather than later, but hey, I'm not psychic as I said. Anyone has the right to live where he or she wants at the end of the day.
My issue is people who come here to bash our state to feel better about themselves and validate themselves. IL is an easy target. We get it. We all know. Your gloating isn't going to change anything for the better. I mean, I dealt with this when I moved to Berwyn some years ago and I'm dealing with it again on a state level now. So I just have very little patience for it.
That is all. Carry on and be well, and I wish everyone the best in their new state who is moving. May you find happiness and peace.
I honestly think there's something to be said for purple states, ones that aren't consistently red or blue. Having some of that moderation I think can help keep things in check and perspectives fresh. Too long as blue or red and I think you get either stagnation or a endless snowballing of problems.
I don't think the majority people are here to gloat or validate themselves, at least I'm not. I'm just listing my reasons for leaving and my experience doing so. I don't love that I moved away from the rest of my family. I hope that IL can turn it around. You're preaching to the choir a bit on having little patience for people bashing the place. I'm living in a place that has dominated negative news this year with protests and riots and such. I'm sure Californians get tired of hearing "commiefornia" and the like as well. There's always going to be a target on states with large populations when things don't go perfectly.
I didn't move to a utopia by any means, I'm looking to leave again. It was a better situation than what I would've had in IL for me, but that doesn't mean it would've been the right move for everyone.
Well, for one thing, you can just look at election results. Not just the whole states but the counties in each state. You will note the prosperous cities and counties are turning blue, even in conservative states like TN, TX, FL and, as we just witnessed, GA.
You can add an element of educated guess too. The bottom line is conservatives have been losing the cultural war. People left of center have dominated academia, the media, and Hollywood for a long time, and that is now true of big tech as well. This has had an impact. Republican performance among younger voters has been declining. That's statistically supportable.
I mean, I get bashed by left and right for suggesting that we should try to bring our manufacturing base back, for both good jobs and national security. But if it doesn't come back, as everyone tells me it can't, then where is our national wealth going to come from? Educated information workers, who trend young, and thus Democrat. Whether they continue their move to urban centers or pull back into smaller cities as dctnb03 and others have theorized is really anyone's guess, but either way, they are likely to shift the electorate in prosperous states.
Not saying this can't be turned around. While not a majority, a substantial number of Hispanics voted Republican in the Presidential race in '20, despite (or because of?) Trump's non-stop rhetoric and the media's constant bashing of him as anti-immigrant. If they can build on that, maybe the trajectory changes. But right now, it doesn't look good for conservative values in the U.S.
It will probably be a while, before Tennessee, Texas, or Florida would flip from a red state to at least a purple state, let alone a blue state. I still consider Florida purple, but for sure it slightly leans red. All 3 states do have a few blue leaning areas(i.e. Nashville, Austin, Gainesville, south Florida, etc), but for the most part lean red. Georgia I still consider to be a purple state, even if it doesn't lean as red as it used to. And for sure Georgia isn't yet as left/blue leaning, as Virginia has gotten to be. At this point Virginia has gotten to the point where it's become a blue state, and has moved beyond the point where it was once classified as a purple state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYEddy
Step 1 should be term limits for all state and local elected officials.
Amen to this, so very much! For sure it is VERY LOOOONG overdue, for term limits to be established for Illinois political offices. It's also sad on a side note how a referendum signature initiative(and I remember signing for that referendum, as well) I think around 2016, got thrown out and not properly placed onto the ballot sometime in the mid-2010s. And I agree with the rest of your comment, about how Illinois isn't as ran well as one would wish it'd be more like.
I've said this before and I'll say it again. Moving is only temporary. If you don't stand and fight for your values then leftism will creep in. That's what's been happening throughout the country. I expect to see that reflected in this November's election results.
If you think Texas or whatever is so great then a lot of other people do too, and they will eventually vote in those policies that you're running from.
That's the funny thing. If you judge the postings of Texans on this site, they are all itching for Texas to turn blue because they want so badly to be mentioned with California and New York. Ask them point blank and they won't admit it, but read their posts.
I am super Interested in moving to Chicago. But this thread has given me pause. Would the state and civic leaders consider lowering taxes across the board? Then Illinois could see an influx of people therefore increasing it’s tax base? Work is good right?
Democrats in Illinois are grooming Lori Lightfoot for a presidential run. She is fast becoming the star of the Democratic Party nationwide.
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This. The mafia machine politics has been around for decades and is far too powerful. It's a disgrace that multiple governors have been put in jail. Our taxes are ridiculous. We had a Republican governor that I voted for that nearly put us in junk bond status. I don't think it was entirely his fault. Corruption of that magnitude is hard to stop. Especially with our speaker of the house who keeps on getting re-elected because he takes good care of his constituents. They can't see the greater picture. 
And I agree with the rest of your comment, about how Illinois isn't as ran well as one would wish it'd be more like.
