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jsimms3 - I don't know where you got your info about sewers - but I'm sure there are a lot of houses on the River that don't have sewers. Heck - when we were looking at (expensive) waterfront property in San Marco and Riverside in 1995 - a lot of those grand houses didn't have sewers. Ruled them out. I won't live without sewers. Perhaps they have them now in JAX - but I'd bet a lot of the waterfront in St. Johns County doesn't (I don't recall seeing any evidence of sewer lines when I drive down 13). Also doubt that all/most property in Clay County on the River has sewers. And where does our "treated" sewage that isn't recycled on places like golf courses go? Probably into the River/ocean. So I suspect sewage is still very much part of the problem - as are commercial agricultural and industrial pollution on certain parts of the River.
Note that the amount of chemicals/fertilzers the average homeowner uses pales in comparison to what is used in commercial agriculture. As for your mother - her yard probably wouldn't pass muster in most HOAs. My husband and I have an acre. We take care of a lot of weeds the old fashioned way - hand-pulling - but still need a monthly app of Roundup or similar in the warmer months so the weeds don't choke out the native vegetation (a lot of the weeds are predatory non-natives - as are many trees/shrubs/flowers and other things that people plant here). Note that we don't have a lot of grass - I think trying to grow what passes for grass in Florida is kind of silly. And that if your mother grows most flowers/vegetables that do ok here in her beds - she is probably using more fertilizer than most people use on their lawns. Heck - most citrus trees need an amazing amount of fertilzer on a monthly basis 8-9 months of the year here to be "fruitful". Robyn
P.S. Don't make your 60 something mother sound so old. My husband and I are in our 60's - and the amount of "stoop labor" we do on our property would put most younger people to shame. My husband likes to joke that he's earned his beer after he does a "mow and blow" in July (like he did today). BTW - where on the River do your folks live - and do they and all the people in their area have sewers?
^^ I said sewer/septic (we have septic), riverfront on my street is mainly septic, but across the street is sewer and some people on the river are on sewer.
Also you are right about HOA, no house on my street in my neighborhood and no house that I am aware of on the river with a few exceptions would pass HOA. We don't have HOA in my neighborhood and we are glad for it. People are free to landscape or garden how they please (or not landscape or garden), and it adds to the character of the area as well as differences in houses.
As for treated wastewater, some of it is put back into the river, much of it is "unspoken for," and now there are plans to inject it back into the Florida aquifer because we are taking too much from the aquifer and that reduces the natural "pressure" necessary to maintain flow. Whether this is a problem remains to be proven, as we have become really really good at treating water. Having lived on the river my whole life and enjoyed the river my whole life (I have only lived in 2 houses in Jax), I still think that fertilizer/pesticides/trashy people throwing trash are the biggest problems that I can see, and I have seen a lot of the river and participated in many a river cleanup. In my short life span I have not personally noticed a lot of change in river cleanliness, but I have noticed an uptick in the last 5-6 years in algal blooms and I noticed a distinct increase in salinity that persists in the early 2000s, probably when I was in 7th or 8th grade. That may have been due to dredging for the port.
PS: what they do in Gainesville is use treated water for such things as lawn care and utility/industrial work. We have yet to fund and implement a similar system here in Jax, but we are looking into it. If we go to that system, much of that water would end up in the river still, but I see no problem with treated water ending up in the St. Johns as long as there is not any of an "ine" in the water after treatment.
^^ I said sewer/septic (we have septic), riverfront on my street is mainly septic, but across the street is sewer and some people on the river are on sewer.
Also you are right about HOA, no house on my street in my neighborhood and no house that I am aware of on the river with a few exceptions would pass HOA. We don't have HOA in my neighborhood and we are glad for it. People are free to landscape or garden how they please (or not landscape or garden), and it adds to the character of the area as well as differences in houses.
As for treated wastewater, some of it is put back into the river, much of it is "unspoken for," and now there are plans to inject it back into the Florida aquifer because we are taking too much from the aquifer and that reduces the natural "pressure" necessary to maintain flow. Whether this is a problem remains to be proven, as we have become really really good at treating water. Having lived on the river my whole life and enjoyed the river my whole life (I have only lived in 2 houses in Jax), I still think that fertilizer/pesticides/trashy people throwing trash are the biggest problems that I can see, and I have seen a lot of the river and participated in many a river cleanup. In my short life span I have not personally noticed a lot of change in river cleanliness, but I have noticed an uptick in the last 5-6 years in algal blooms and I noticed a distinct increase in salinity that persists in the early 2000s, probably when I was in 7th or 8th grade. That may have been due to dredging for the port.
PS: what they do in Gainesville is use treated water for such things as lawn care and utility/industrial work. We have yet to fund and implement a similar system here in Jax, but we are looking into it. If we go to that system, much of that water would end up in the river still, but I see no problem with treated water ending up in the St. Johns as long as there is not any of an "ine" in the water after treatment.
If you have a septic tank on the River - you're part of the problem - not the solution. You point fingers at some people who put a little fertillizer on their lawns - and then let your untreated human excrement seep through the soil into the water. FWIW - here's how a septic tank works:
Sounds pretty disgusting to me - and I'm sure the River is even more disgusted by it. There's an old song - Clean Up Your Own Backyard. Especially before you tell me what to do in mine. I think your next project should be persuading the people in your parents' neighborhood (you live in Atlanta - they live here) to spend the $20k or so per house it costs to put in a decent sewer system. Good luck (it's a goal you might accomplish before you die). Robyn
Well considering our septic tank is literally 300 feet from the river (close to the street) and so are most of the others that I am aware of, I don't think the "wastewater" is travelling sideways to the river. I agree there are some leaky and bad septic tanks and perhaps people that do not maintain them, but there are whole areas where there is no sewer and the homeowners have no choice. There is no sewer on area of street, so I guess all of us could come together and foot the outrageously expensive bill to rip up the street and install sewer (not to mention work with the city and have all the homeowners in agreement to do this) and then rebuild the street. Maybe when the economy turns around however it could be a lot more feasible.
PS: Don't swim near me in the river as there is a chance I could be peeing. (at least waste is natural )
By the way, when waste was going into the river back in the day, it did not kill fish or produce these wild algal blooms, which is a direct cause of other stuff I will not mention for fear of the wrath of Robyn. Just kidding about that last comment, hehe.
AND, I am a personal champion of making infrastructure improvements a national priority (instead of all these social programs which do little good and bankrupt the country). Our infrastructure is literally crumbling all around us and we keep building new infrastructure (well just roads) instead of maintaining that which we have already built. While not a serious problem in Jacksonville I am sure (like it is in most older cities in the north and midwest), sewers are notorious for breaks, leaks, and overall malfunctions because old metal pipes have not been replaced. If that is the case here, there could potentially be sewage mixing with stormwater (in many cities there is no separation between sewage and stormwater), and being dumped directly into the river. If that is the case, that is far worse than any non-leaking septic 300 ft from the river where wastewater, not waste, settling straight down is the biggest concern. This would not be anybody's fault of course, but people often don't realize what a problem our country has on its hands with our crumbling infrastructure. Our bridges are potentially unsafe (these are road/rail bridges over land as well as water), sewer/stormwater drainage problems, railroad upkeep, landfill upkeep, road upkeep, new rail construction (China is building more rail every day than we can even fathom, and that is helping them become a global powerhouse), etc.
Well considering our septic tank is literally 300 feet from the river (close to the street) and so are most of the others that I am aware of, I don't think the "wastewater" is travelling sideways to the river. I agree there are some leaky and bad septic tanks and perhaps people that do not maintain them, but there are whole areas where there is no sewer and the homeowners have no choice. There is no sewer on area of street, so I guess all of us could come together and foot the outrageously expensive bill to rip up the street and install sewer (not to mention work with the city and have all the homeowners in agreement to do this) and then rebuild the street. Maybe when the economy turns around however it could be a lot more feasible.
PS: Don't swim near me in the river as there is a chance I could be peeing. (at least waste is natural )
By the way, when waste was going into the river back in the day, it did not kill fish or produce these wild algal blooms, which is a direct cause of other stuff I will not mention for fear of the wrath of Robyn. Just kidding about that last comment, hehe.
AND, I am a personal champion of making infrastructure improvements a national priority (instead of all these social programs which do little good and bankrupt the country). Our infrastructure is literally crumbling all around us and we keep building new infrastructure (well just roads) instead of maintaining that which we have already built. While not a serious problem in Jacksonville I am sure (like it is in most older cities in the north and midwest), sewers are notorious for breaks, leaks, and overall malfunctions because old metal pipes have not been replaced. If that is the case here, there could potentially be sewage mixing with stormwater (in many cities there is no separation between sewage and stormwater), and being dumped directly into the river. If that is the case, that is far worse than any non-leaking septic 300 ft from the river where wastewater, not waste, settling straight down is the biggest concern. This would not be anybody's fault of course, but people often don't realize what a problem our country has on its hands with our crumbling infrastructure. Our bridges are potentially unsafe (these are road/rail bridges over land as well as water), sewer/stormwater drainage problems, railroad upkeep, landfill upkeep, road upkeep, new rail construction (China is building more rail every day than we can even fathom, and that is helping them become a global powerhouse), etc.
If septic runoff can get from the Malibu Hills into the ocean - it can go 300 feet into the River:
Where do you think the output from the leach fields goes? Especially when the ground is saturated with water during the rainy season?
I know that when sewers are mandated - homeowners scream like heck about the cost. But it's the price of living near civilization - not on a farm in the middle of nowhere. And I have about as little sympathy for owners of Riverfront property as I did for the owners of houses in old Ponte Vedra when they fought against sewers. It's not like they're living on worthless land in doublewides. FWIW - Broward County mandated sewers in my parents' house in the early 70's because of water pollution concerns.
I'm not aware of failing sewer systems in Jacksonville. Then again - I get the local section of the FTU for the Beaches - not any part of Jax. I know that we had problems with sewer failures when I lived in Miami. And I agree that aging/faulty infrastructure should be repaired/replaced. Like most complicated issues - there's no single "guilty party" and no "magic bullet" cure for what ails the River.
FWIW - in case you didn't know - human urine is sterile (unless you have a urinary tract infection). Human feces most definitely are not (and they can transmit all kinds of nasty things). And I reckon both find their way into septic tanks .
Looks like the majority of "nutrients" polluting the river come from upstream (meaning towards Orlando in the St. Johns' case). Still it seems apparent that nitrogen runoff from fertilizer seems to be the biggest problem in the St. Johns.
I read the article. But when you're looking at a problem with many sources - you can't do the old "Don't Tax You - Don't Tax Me - Tax the Guy Behind the Tree" thing. Everyone who is at least partially responsible has to chip in and help.
Maybe we should ban fertilizers - and lawns. I don't mind. What passes for grass in this part of the world is a poor excuse for it IMO (and I only do the minimum amount I have to do to meet ARB standards). My brother lives in Scottsdale AZ - and lawns are banned there in new construction (waste of water). Works for me.
But every house - business - whatever - that is directly on the River should be forced to have sewers IMO. They are simply not a big deal. Cost about $20-25k for installation for an average old house installation (and there are long term bond programs so you don't have to come up with the cash up front - you can amortize the payment over a long period of time). And then you have to pay sewage fees (we pay about $30/month). And if a homeowner doesn't like it - leave (there isn't any cheap Riverfront property in the metro area - so it's not like we'll be forcing a dirt farmer off his 5 inland acres with a doublewide).
In my opinion - living on the River is like living in a gated community. You've made promises - implicit or explicit - to maintain your property in a certain way that is pleasing (whether to the environment or your neighbors). And if you don't want to keep your promise - pass your property on to someone who will. Robyn
I agree with everything you said and I think the point of the article was that we in Jacksonville end up paying for every river cleanup and river project when the river extends all the way to Orlando and other people who use the river should cut back on pollutants and pay their fair share (like we all pay for the Everglades cleanups and rehabilitations).
Also, I agree about septic and if I lived on the river or had the money I would go to sewer, but I am never home and it is not my place to nag everyone about it and give myself an odd/bad reputation in my neighborhood, and I would feel a lot more comfortable nagging my parents about it if the economy were better and they were actually making money and also when they are not spending a fortune to support me or my sister.
I also agree with your last statement (though I personally have a high disregard for gated communities so I cannot agree to your comparison of a non-gated historic neighborhood to a gated one just because the non-gated one is in the public eye). By your logic, every person has a duty to maintain their home, and that I can agree with. To the best of my knowledge, most people on the river do maintain their homes and the homes are pleasurable to the eye both from the road and the riverfront. A manicured lawn and sterile landscaping a well maintained home they do not make, necessarily.
Look at my "riverfront scenes" album and you will see a plethora of creativity in landscaping, or even non-landscaping. Some of the homes have a more sterile and manicured appearance, but many do not and still look ok The coolest yards are those covered in gardens and not with a massive lawn. People that emulate the Cummer Gardens style deserve a lot of praise if they are doing the gardening themselves, and many are (my mother spends at least 4 hours in the garden a day, but she has the time for it as her "realtor" job has become quite slow in this economy, heh).
New update. Foam does not contain an acid found in many pools, so pools aren't probably cause. Decaying algal blooms may be the cause, but it sounds like nobody knows for sure what the cause of the foam is.
""nobody knows for sure what the cause of the foam is.""
I don't know what kind of polution it is, but it is polution.
Where is Hanz Tanzler, when we need him? Skiing?
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(at least waste is natural 
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