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I'm an inactive lawyer who will never probably practice again, mostly due to my personal situation, but also because it became extremely unrewarding to help clients who would then resent the fact that they had to hire you in the first place.
Also, it wears on you to have non-lawyers automatically think you are dishonest just because you are a lawyer. I've had pastors of churches I was visiting for the first time tell me I must be in that category who knew nothing else about me.
Just as an observation and not as a comment, I don't know any lawyers who like practicing law. There are some who quit to literally maintain their sanity, and some who keep practicing because they feel they can't afford to quit, but none I personally know who like it.
Sometimes in life you just have to be willing to go after your dream! Maybe your LSAT or GPA is not high enough to make it into a better school. Nonetheless, if you go to a lower rank school work your butt off to graduate within the top ten. In todays society people lack the "go get it attitude". There is nothing wrong with chancing an ambulance. Do you know how much money one injury case yeild an attorney? 3,000 + per case. a case load of 10 accidents yeild at minimum 30,000. I haven't seen a lawyer in the welfare line yet. Have any of you?
Yes, I've seen lawyers at welfare offices and food pantry windows. I've also seen many, many lawyers working at Barnes & Noble and Home Depot. The general public has no idea how financially unrewarding law is for so many lawyers. Especially for law school grads at lower tier schools who did not graduate at the top of those schools. It used to be those grads got the Assistant DA and public jobs, now the top tier grads are taking those jobs due to supply and demand.
Also due to tort reform in most states, PI lawyers don't make near the money they used to and many have quit practicing because the overhead just eats you up.
I think your descriptions are fairly accurate. I was an appellate lawyer - and liked doing research and writing briefs. Also liked arguing in front of smart judges (who were mostly on the federal bench - not the state bench). I even once argued a case in the the US Supreme Court. That was nerve-wracking - but kind of fun (although I needed to take a Valium to get me through it without bouncing off the ceiling ). I really disliked running an office (I was the senior founding partner of a small boutique practice) - dealing with everything from the office machines to the insurance policies. My husband was a medical malpractice lawyer - and he hated the vagaries of the jury system. I quit the practice of law in 1985 - and never missed it for a minute. Robyn
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What have I started???? I almost completely forgot about this thread I started so many years ago, and yet, here it is. Still going strong. lol
You guys, over the past couple of years, I have been on QUITE a journey. I did end up going to law school (not Florida Coastal), dropped out, and found employment working as an Admissions Representative for a FOR-PROFIT SCHOOL!! Yes, I can hardly believe it myself too, lol.
I have learned SO MUCH from my experience not only attending law school, but also working for a for-profit. It's late and I have to get to bed, but tomorrow after work, I will let drop a lot of super important information to share!!!!!!!! STAY TUNED.
Okay, sorry I put it off for so long. Anyway, I dropped out of law school because the law is simply not for me. I am a super emotional, sensitive, creative, right brain dominated girl. I don't care for hard facts and logic and rules. I knew this going into law school, however! I did my research, remember? But I went anyway as a last minute decision, because my dad called me into the kitchen the night before the seat deposit was due and literally cried and begged me to at least give law school "a try." So I did it, because it's always been extremely difficult for me to disappoint my parents. They mean the world to me, plus I was still pretty young. (I've gone through some hard times that I feel have forced me to grow up a lot since.)
I decided in the middle of first semester that I didn't want to continue on with law school, but everyone in my life kept telling me to at least fight it out until the end of the school year. However about 2 weeks into second semester, I decided I'd had ENOUGH. So I told my parents, sorry, but I can't do this anymore. Of course they weren't happy about this, and so I took a year long leave of absence to appease them instead, knowing damn well I was not going to return after that year was up.
During my year long leave of absence, I ended up applying for an Admissions Representative job at a for-profit college. I felt that I would love the job, because I would be able to help inspire and motivate students to further their education. I was weary and didn't feel comfortable about working for a for-profit, but the starting salary they offered me was so good, I couldn't pass it up. Little did I know what the hell I was getting myself into. I have worked for a few different for-profit schools since and one thing remains true, for-profit schools are ALL THE SAME. I am saying this from an inside perspective. My job as an Admissions Representative is a SALES job through and through. We have very strict goals and quotas to meet, and if we don't meet those quotas, we are laid off! The turnover rate for admissions staff at for-profit schools is insane. It's very rare to find someone that's been with the school longer than two years, even two years is considered a long time. Our job is constantly on the line. Everyone from the Director of Admissions, to the campus pres, to the admissions representatives are all under EXTREME pressure to sell the school to EVERY student that walks in. And I mean EXTREME pressure. We need to enroll as many students as we can, because the more students we enroll, the more money (in the form of students tuition money) the school gets, and $$$ is all the school really cares about. Sure, we have career services that try to help place students in jobs, but they are also under pressure to meet quotas--not because the school cares about the students, but because they want to maintain a good reputation so that more students will be willing to enroll. More students = more money.
Looking back on my old post after visiting FCSL, it's funny that I said it seemed to me that all the Admissions Reps were reciting from a script. Working for a for-profit, I found myself memorizing scripts to say to prospective students during my training sessions! I've always been an extremely intuitive person, very good at "reading" people. My intuition definitely didn't fail me then.
I have been desperately applying to other jobs, because I hate working for a company (because yes, for-profit schools are companies and corporations) that could care less about the students well being and success. They want to retain students so that they can continue to keep take their money.
I am sick of coming into work and finding a co-worker crying in the bathroom, or crying in the copy room, because they are having a personal emergency, and are too scared to ask for time off from our boss. One of my co-workers was having a hard time meeting her quota of students enrolling in the school because her father had just recently passed away and her daughter was very sick, doctors thought she had cancer. Well, our boss calls her into his office and tells her to her face, "I don't care that your father died, and I don't care that your daughter is sick. When you are here at work, that is non of my concern. I just care that you do whatever it takes to meet your damn quota." ...and my coworker told me this with tears in her eyes. That's just ONE example of the crap we have to deal with. We are constantly having to work overtime and weekends and nights. This job just about ruined my relationship with my ex, because I always had to cancel our weekend plans with him last minute, when my boss would require me to work on a whim. It's almost funny, because part of the reason I left law school, was because I did not want to work in an environment like this, and yet, I somehow ended up in that same environment anyway!
These for-profit schools tie down their good admissions representatives by using those "Golden Handcuffs." They pay a ton of money to entice us to stay. It's hard finding another job that's going to start me at how much I'm making now, and it's not easy taking a big pay cut. God willing, I'll find something soon, though.
Keep in mind, however, that my experience has been working for for-profit colleges. I've never worked for a law school, but I'm pretty sure it's all the same. Anyone that's ever worked in the admissions department of a for-profit school can tell you they're all the same.
Now, the last thing I want to do is stomp on anyone's dream. If the law is something that you're super passionate about, if it's always been your biggest dream to become a lawyer, then work your ass off and make it happen. One of my favorite quotes says, "Don't tell me the sky's the limit, when there are footprints on the moon." But if you're truly determined and passionate enough about making this happen, then do whatever it takes to get good LSAT scores so that you have options better than FCSL.
Hope this helps.
-Melody
Last edited by HoneyBeeMel; 01-17-2012 at 10:37 PM..
I am a graduate from Florida Coastal School of Law and I monitor this thread from time to time. While I cannot speak for the for-profit schools you’ve worked for, I assure you Florida Coastal School of Law and any other proprietary law school or medical school do not and cannot engage in the activities you have described.
Law schools, in particular, must be in compliance with ABA accreditation standards that preclude the types of abuses that generated Department of Education regulatory concern very recently. ABA standards govern all aspects of a law school’s programs and policies. Law schools also have to submit annual reports to the ABA, and have site visits every seven years.
I continue to enjoy a very positive relationship with my alma mater. I often return for alumni events, keep in contact with former professors and classmates, and continue to be pleased with the way Florida Coastal has developed since my graduation in 2008. I also enjoy a successful career.
Again, I’m sorry you have had such unfortunate experiences working with other for-profit schools, and I can’t make assumptions about what they do. However, I make it my personal responsibility to defend my law school, as well as the integrity of the degree I earned there, when Florida Coastal gets unfairly dragged into conversations about for-profit education.
I am also a FCSL graduate of 2007. I have resisted commenting because i don't want to get into an argument on the current state of law school graduates and the job market. Law students in all schools are affected. I agree it is not an easy path. However, going to FCSL does not mean you will not get a job and you will be frowned upon by potential employers. My friends and I have done well. One went from a small firm in Jacksonville to a nice firm in Chicago. Another works for a well known PI firm in Jacksonville, not one with commercials. I started at a a statewide defense firm and after a little more than a year I left for a job at the Public Defenders Office, which was what I wanted to do. Much has to do with the chances you take, take advantage of every opportunity to meet somebody and network. Often it takes a little luck, but being a lawyer is a great profession, it is not a job, it is something more. No matter where you end up you will always have your JD. Many of the comments on this thread put down FCSL, but it has provided me with a future that only time will tell, but the opportunities I have been given so far are extraordinary. It is not for everybody and not everybody will succeed, but to say one school will keep you out is not true. Search the firms in Jacksonville and see the FCSL graduates. Times are tough now and any job is a blessing, but don't discount your future because some people on the internet tell you it is a bad idea. Take a shot and see for your self. Life can take you to some interesting places.
The only reason "for profit" schools try to market their schools aggressively is because they have to compete against "public" schools that keep in-state tuition down by soaking and gouging tax payers.
Public schools have carved out massive tax exemptions, public schools sit on massive endowments thanks to those exemptions, and public schools generally are a total rip off for tax payers. Most students getting instate tuition--leave the state upon graduation.
Personally, I think robbing the tax payer to pay for inflated professor and administrator salaries and make work jobs at "public" schools is a thousand times worse than convincing a student to voluntarily spend their own money to attend a "for profit" school.
Many public school graduates attain useless degrees, go on the dole, or worse yet become gov't workers who, again, soak and rip off the tax payers with his or her make work job.
Worse case scenerio these students get jobs doling out the dole to other dead beats. It's a like a quadrupole F U to the tax payer: 1st tax payer subsides loan to student for worthless degree, 2nd tax payer pays back loan for worthless degree of student under repayment plan, 3rd student gets gov't job paid for by tax payer, 4th student turned gov't worker-now has job that's purpose is to give out tax payers money to other losers!
Thanks but no thanks... For profit schools at least have market incentives to produce graduates some productive skills. The "for profit" just means they don't use the gov't coercion to steel from tax payers involuntarily.
Personally, I think robbing the tax payer to pay for inflated professor and administrator salaries and make work jobs at "public" schools is a thousand times worse than convincing a student to voluntarily spend their own money to attend a "for profit" school.
Then again, I prefer freedom and choice and private business--not gov't coercion, gov't force, and paying for other people's living expenses (aka attending public school) via high taxes.
That said, the price of ALL higher ed schools, public and private, is ludicrously high because of the third-party payer system--known as gov't student loans.
WOW somebody ignited a fire in the ***'* of FCSL student's and made replying positively to a negative thread a class project. They must be lacing the water cooler over there with Vodka, Gin or acid. This thread is funnier than the "a Rabbi a Priest and a Giraffe walked into a bar" joke.
Bash FCSL until the cows come home for all I care.
My replies are directed at non-nonsensical bashing of "for profit" companies (like FCSL or Wal-Mart or Whole Food or your neighborhood mom and pop market). The best "social" programs are profitable businesses. My comments are aimed at liberals in general who worship at the alter of economy killing "non profit" collectivism and corporate bashing.
I totally agree FCSL is a totally non-prestigious school. However, the professors are good. The education is good-->practitioner and skills based. Nobody coming out of the school with good grades doesn't know how to practice law.
But no law school will become prestigious letting students in with 150's on their LSAT. And it's also expensive as sh*t if you are not on scholarship.
As for the LSAT, anyone who know's anything about law schools, however, knows the LSAT is the primary factor for admission to any law school, and that the LSAT is about keeping prestigious schools--> prestigious.... It has little to do with gauging student's abilities. Minorities score 10 points lower (no matter what their under grad GPA was) on average for whatever reason. It's a flawed test that exists for the sole maintenance of elite public law schools. Read Justice Thomas's supreme court opinions on the matter.
FCSL has more minorities, older law students, and first time generation college graduates than just about any law school. Many people and law schools do not like that kind of diversity. The law is too prestigious for underclass-lings to become lawyers and all. Personally, I don't care for that kind of elitism. The law isn't all that complicated and society would be better if lawyers were not all silver spooned trust-fund babies.
The school also has 20%+ attrition--> so there is not any affirmative action. You either make good grades or get booted. No matter who you are. It's merit based. Many people (liberals) do not like that. They would rather see people just get rejected from law school than be given a chance.
The school is what it is.... Bash it, love it, or be indifferent. I don't care. I just despise liberals who bash profitable companies. Such people are economic illiterates and morally bankrupt Marxists.
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). I really disliked running an office (I was the senior founding partner of a small boutique practice) - dealing with everything from the office machines to the insurance policies. My husband was a medical malpractice lawyer - and he hated the vagaries of the jury system. I quit the practice of law in 1985 - and never missed it for a minute. Robyn
