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Not Jewish, but I grew up in Williamsburg and have not had a day in my 22 years where I have not been around Jews.
I was talking to a friend, who is Jewish and we had an interesting conversation.
Numerically, Jewish numbers are increasing in the United States. However American Jews intermarry at an exceptionally high rate, and even if they don't they are as much Jewish as I am Irish and Italian (ie they treat it like a heritage and maybe hold some traditions but are essentially the same as every white American). Apparently those who don't assimilate are likely to become more religious and join orthodox denominations. Many conservative/conservadox/orthodox Jews (non Haredi) make Aliyah to Israel as well (which btw is a country I have been too and LOVED!)
This means that the growth in the Jewish community is coming from Hasids/Haredi/Ultra Orthodox who each have 5, 6, 7 kids who marry young and each have 5, 6, 7 kids etc.
Eventually this means that Ultra Orthodox Jews will be the majority of American Jewry. What do you think the affect of that will be going forward?
Look at Kiryas Joel in Upstate NY, they are the fastest growing town in the whole country!
Currently they are around 10%. Some where in far, far, far, far, far future their numbers will grow to a higher percentage. They already consider themselves as the only Jews as they don't think those of us who aren't as Torah observant as them are Jews. Judaism will grow and change over time, but the probability is rather slim of them becoming the majority in the US is multiple centuries away.
As to Kiryas Joel when NYS comes to grip that they are a cult and finally does a audit of the community thus cutting off NYS entitlements, we'll see how much they grow without government entitlements and have to actually work instead of what they do now.
Currently they are around 10%. Some where in far, far, far, far, far future their numbers will grow to a higher percentage. They already consider themselves as the only Jews as they don't think those of us who aren't as Torah observant as them are Jews. Judaism will grow and change over time, but the probability is rather slim of them becoming the majority in the US is multiple centuries away.
As to Kiryas Joel when NYS comes to grip that they are a cult and finally does a audit of the community thus cutting off NYS entitlements, we'll see how much they grow without government entitlements and have to actually work instead of what they do now.
As to being a Christian, when do you forecast the Roman Catholics becoming a controlling group of all Christianity?
As far as the Roman Catholics, which I am. I think our ship has sailed. Christianity, in the west at least is dead IMO.
You seem quite angry. I don't think the Hasids in Kiryas Joel are a "cult" I've been there and they seem like faithful people living in a way that is so disciplined it's admirable.
Even so, cults are entitled to food stamps..if my illegal immigrant neighbors in brooklyn can get them, so can American Hasids
As far as the Roman Catholics, which I am. I think our ship has sailed. Christianity, in the west at least is dead IMO.
You seem quite angry. I don't think the Hasids in Kiryas Joel are a "cult" I've been there and they seem like faithful people living in a way that is so disciplined it's admirable.
Even so, cults are entitled to food stamps..if my illegal immigrant neighbors in Brooklyn can get them, so can American Hasids
Hasidic/Haredi/Ultra Orthodox in general are not. Only in NYS (and Israel) the Hasidic/Haredi/Ultra Orthodox are.
I am a former Hasid from NYC. So I've seen the reality from the inside. So from my POV, they are. But this thread is not about this. The are threads that have already covered this.
Hasidic/Haredi/Ultra Orthodox in general are not. Only in NYS (and Israel) the Hasidic/Haredi/Ultra Orthodox are.
I am a former Hasid from NYC. So I've seen the reality from the inside. So from my POV, they are. But this thread is not about this. The are threads that have already covered this.
Nice, disciplined people do not rely on government handouts to have a dozen kids because they want to study Torah rather than work. That is the problem with Kiryas Joel. More than five-eighths of Kiryas Joel residents live below the federal poverty line and more than 40 percent receive food stamps. I am a huge advocate for a social safety net in this country, but Kiryas Joel abuses it for a lifestyle and like all those who willingly choose not to work and have children they can't afford, I have a real problem with it. They have no intention of supporting themselves and rely on government handouts of charity to survive.
It also makes it very difficult to leave the community because their children by and large are not prepared to live a secular (or self-supporting) life. A dear friend of mine is still Orthodox, but rejected the ultra-Orthodox upbringing she had in Kiryas Joel (due to lack of educational opportunities for women, pressure to not have a career, expectation to marry very young, and not be allowed to drive). Her old community in KJ has nothing to do with her despite many attempts to reconnect ties with her parents and siblings (which is the rule, not the exception), but luckily she has found a strong Orthodox community in Baltimore.
KJ is a whole other level of Ultra Orthodox, and one that many American Jews reject for good reason. I'm not too worried about their children having much of an impact on Jewish life as a nation other than birthrate.
The data in the Pew Report indicates the non Observant Jewish world already has one foot out the door and is at most 2-3 generations away from extinction. This follows a general pattern of the last 2,000 years - each time a group of Jews seeks to replace Torah with an alternative form of practice, they never survive (Saduccees, Karaites, etc).
However, only G-d decides if they will merit to continue to exist, so although the data is convincing, it's not the final word. FWIW, I'm rooting for these non Torah Jews to survive. I think they add a lot to our culture as a people.
The data in the Pew Report indicates the non Observant Jewish world already has one foot out the door and is at most 2-3 generations away from extinction. This follows a general pattern of the last 2,000 years - each time a group of Jews seeks to replace Torah with an alternative form of practice, they never survive (Saduccees, Karaites, etc).
However, only G-d decides if they will merit to continue to exist, so although the data is convincing, it's not the final word. FWIW, I'm rooting for these non Torah Jews to survive. I think they add a lot to our culture as a people.
If you think non orthodox judaism will be extinct in 50 years that's crazy talk.
If you think non orthodox judaism will be extinct in 50 years that's crazy talk.
I would say more like 200, but I wouldn't be so quick to call a different opinion "crazy."
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