Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I certainly know better than to make such an assumption. I figure that you're talking about people in general who do make such assumptions, unfortunately.
I'm also not comfortable with assumptions that someone is Jewish simply because that person has what seems to be a traditional Jewish surname. I remember when the infamous George Zimmerman was in the news. There were those who assumed that he was Jewish on account of his surname and therefore viewed that as "evidence" that Jews are racist towards Black people. He isn't Jewish, but there are many traditional Jewish surnames that are also shared with non-Jewish people of German, Russian, and Polish background.
There are also many Jews who have generational family names that most people wouldn't consider to be Jewish, such as Miller and Gordon.
Surnames are fascinating for their meanings and origins, but they don't necessarily tell the whole story about the people who bear them.
My mom told me that Roth is a Jewish last name. But I know someone with that last name who has no connection to Judaism. So I agree that making assumptions based someone's name is not a good idea!
My mom told me that Roth is a Jewish last name. But I know someone with that last name who has no connection to Judaism. So I agree that making assumptions based someone's name is not a good idea!
I know, right? There are also people who make assumptions about us based on our physical appearance. How many times have we heard the phrase (if not directed at ourselves then directed at a fellow Jew): "You're Jewish? That's funny -- you don't look Jewish!" What do people expect every individual Jew to look like? We have people of color in our congregations -- and they're not all necessarily converts, either.
As for the reverse (a Jew mistaking non-Jews as Jewish), there is this hilarious scene with Gene Wilder from The Frisco Kid:
Oy gevalt! LOL
@Boaztheger, I hope you're still around and enjoying the discussion.
Mr. Goldberg was visiting China when he happened upon an old synagogue. He put on a talit and sat down to pray. He noticed, though, that the other people there seemed confused by his presence.
After the service, a small, elderly Chinese man came up to Goldberg to welcome him. “We are happy to have you here,” said the man in broken English, “but tell me, how do you know the words of Jewish prayers?” “I grew up with these prayers. I chant them every day at minyan,” Goldberg answered.
The old man peered closely at Goldberg. Then with a shrug of his shoulders, he replied, “Funny, you don’t look Jewish.”
Mr. Goldberg was visiting China when he happened upon an old synagogue. He put on a talit and sat down to pray. He noticed, though, that the other people there seemed confused by his presence.
After the service, a small, elderly Chinese man came up to Goldberg to welcome him. “We are happy to have you here,” said the man in broken English, “but tell me, how do you know the words of Jewish prayers?” “I grew up with these prayers. I chant them every day at minyan,” Goldberg answered.
The old man peered closely at Goldberg. Then with a shrug of his shoulders, he replied, “Funny, you don’t look Jewish.”
Haha! Good one!
Combining your story with the subject of Jewish names, this reminds me of something I read in Rabbi Shmuel Gorr's book Jewish Personal Names: Their Origin, Derivation and Diminutive Forms. Rabbi Gorr discussed the Jews of China and their pronunciation of the name Moshe as Meshe, and how that came to be. Very interesting reading -- not only that particular piece, but the entire book. I think the book is now out of print, but Avotaynu.com (which holds the copyright) may possibly bring it back for a third printing. Rabbi Gorr's book is the main source used by Chabad.org for their website pages containing lists of Jewish boys' and girls' names.
Combining your story with the subject of Jewish names, this reminds me of something I read in Rabbi Shmuel Gorr's book Jewish Personal Names: Their Origin, Derivation and Diminutive Forms. Rabbi Gorr discussed the Jews of China and their pronunciation of the name Moshe as Meshe, and how that came to be. Very interesting reading -- not only that particular piece, but the entire book. I think the book is now out of print, but Avotaynu.com (which holds the copyright) may possibly bring it back for a third printing. Rabbi Gorr's book is the main source used by Chabad.org for their website pages containing lists of Jewish boys' and girls' names.
Speaking of the Jews of China, I have actually visited the site of the former synagogue of Kaifeng located on Torah Lane. I also visited the local municipality museum which has a special exhibit (that one needs to pay admission and request they open it up for you) which has some old Chinese Jewish tombstones. The original Jews that came to Kaifeng were from India. (Kaifeng was an ancient Chinese capital during the Song Dynasty along the Silk Road.) Since in China most people trace their ethnicity based on their father's side of the family and there was intermarriage between the Jews of Kaifeng and local Chinese, many of the Kaifeng Jews descendants were not Jewish according to the Halacha. I believe those that have immigrated to Israel did undergo an Orthodox Jewish conversion (in Israel).
Speaking of the Jews of China, I have actually visited the site of the former synagogue of Kaifeng located on Torah Lane. I also visited the local municipality museum which has a special exhibit (that one needs to pay admission and request they open it up for you) which has some old Chinese Jewish tombstones. The original Jews that came to Kaifeng were from India. (Kaifeng was an ancient Chinese capital during the Song Dynasty along the Silk Road.) Since in China most people trace their ethnicity based on their father's side of the family and there was intermarriage between the Jews of Kaifeng and local Chinese, many of the Kaifeng Jews descendants were not Jewish according to the Halacha. I believe those that have immigrated to Israel did undergo an Orthodox Jewish conversion (in Israel).
Fascinating! Hey, would you be interested in doing an entire topic here sometime about your visit to the synagogue of Kaifeng and other Jewish sites of interest in China? If you have pictures that you wouldn't mind posting, that would be cool, too!
Rabbi Gorr also mentions in his book that I cited earlier what you wrote here about how the Jews of China came from India. He says that it is thought that "their Indian migratory springboard was preceded by a Yemenite origin" and that their phonetics provides a clue. That also, "Jews from Aden, a southern Yemenite port, are known to have migrated north to Egypt, southwest to eastern Africa, and also to the west coast of India."
Fascinating! Hey, would you be interested in doing an entire topic here sometime about your visit to the synagogue of Kaifeng and other Jewish sites of interest in China? If you have pictures that you wouldn't mind posting, that would be cool, too!
Rabbi Gorr also mentions in his book that I cited earlier what you wrote here about how the Jews of China came from India. He says that it is thought that "their Indian migratory springboard was preceded by a Yemenite origin" and that their phonetics provides a clue. That also, "Jews from Aden, a southern Yemenite port, are known to have migrated north to Egypt, southwest to eastern Africa, and also to the west coast of India."
If I remember correctly, there has been at least one past thread or more on this forum about the Jews in China (which I believe I posted to).
From what I'm seeing here in America, it appears that Reform Judaism is moving closer to Conservative Judaism in practice these days. I have yet to encounter these days a Reform congregation that does not keep kosher, unlike when keeping kosher was not the practice in Reform Judaism of earlier times.
I have also seen Conservative Judaism moving closer to Orthodox practice. My own shul is what some people might call "Conservadox" -- closer in practice to Orthodox Judaism.
I think that perhaps the influence of Chabad with its outreach programs may be partly responsible for this shift towards a higher level of observance among the non-Orthodox branches of Judaism.
I too see that the three "branches" of Judaism are shifting. The shul of my youth and early marriage was considered Conservative. Men and women sat together, but only men did Aliyah. The rabbis and cantors were all men.
When I moved to another state, I attended a congregation that called themselves Conservative. It seemed more Reform to me, so I went to an Orthodox congregation. The Modern Orthodox was almost exactly the same as my former Conservative congregation, except that they had separate sections for men and women, but they were side by side, not behind a mechitzah. This modern Orthodox congregation used the same Mahzor as I used in my Conservative congregation. I felt more comfortable in the Modern Orthodox congregation.
Last edited by Rachel NewYork; 08-12-2022 at 07:39 PM..
Reason: Fixed "Conservadox" in my quoted text.
I emailed the Rabbi who runs the Beth Din and she said this :
i'm glad you've found yourself a good community. which one is that? if you could just send to the rabbi to send to the Beit Din a letter from the doctor, then that's fine. there's no reason for hatafat dam as that's only for people who have been circumcised as a child and therefore cannot undergo circumcision again.
thanks for writing to me and i look forward to seeing you at a Beit Din...i actually run it so i'm usually around.
It’s all good Baruch HaShem
I think in light of Pikuach Nefesh that's the right response.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I figure that you're talking about people in general who do make such assumptions, unfortunately.
