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Oh, I'm in my 30s. I assume the median age of this board is likely in the 50s or 60s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by agw123
My heat system breaks... its gas or oil. I have to replace it.... cost 7-8k. fine... but no.. now i have to get an electric heat pump... cost is 25k because I have to upgrade my electric service....
Where did you get that $25K figure though? That seems really high for both a panel upgrade and heat pump unless your home was truly massive. Did you try getting quotes from multiple places? This seems like someone was trying to take advantage of you either by getting you to pay more or to sandbag other options in order to get you to go with them.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 01-18-2023 at 12:36 PM..
Not to mention the birds which will be maimed; shame on you for not thinking about the birds...
***
In other news, I find this incredible:
"... the Wyoming Legislature has drafted a resolution to phase out sales of new electric vehicles in the Cowboy State by 2035"
"...The resolution’s sponsor, Wyoming State Senator Jim Anderson, R-Casper, eludes that the intention of the proposal is to push back against bans on new sales of cars with internal combustion engines in states like California and New York."
"How the world's largest landfill became New York's biggest new park"
"Also conspicuous is a feature that sets this place apart from Point Reyes, and pretty much every other natural environment. There are gas wells, submerged vaults topped with an exotic arrangement of pipes, valves, and tubes. These are part of a vast system designed to harvest the methane formed by decomposing trash, purify it, and pipe it to National Grid, the power company that then sells the gas to approximately 25,000 Staten Island households, earning the city some $12 million a year."
What is the City going to do if NYS prohibits natural gas appliances? Lost revenue, and what will they do with the methane that's collected? It's going to be a mess.
NYC's actually been having a lot of wildlife return which is nice and I think Fresh Kills has helped with that. The landfill gas isn't meant to happen indefinitely. It's for the next several years though without a firm date as supposedly it's to run as long as it's economically viable so the cost of operations has to be lower than the price for the yield it gets. Obviously the landfill will not produce gas indefinitely and is a fairly small component of the amount of gas NYC uses, and again, the phase out of natural gas for direct consumer usage as even imagined now would take decades.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 01-18-2023 at 01:02 PM..
Oh, I'm in my 30s. I assume the median age of this board is likely in the 50s or 60s.
Where did you get that $25K figure though? That seems really high for both a panel upgrade and heat pump unless your home was truly massive. Did you try getting quotes from multiple places? This seems like someone was trying to take advantage of you either by getting you to pay more or to sandbag other options in order to get you to go with them.
Are you kidding me? Panel upgrade, heat pump system and duct work can easily hit 20-25k with labor factored in.
Are you kidding me? Panel upgrade, heat pump system and duct work can easily hit 20-25k with labor factored in.
I'm not kidding you. I'm really curious about this quote. Panel upgrades to 200 amps costing in or near the five would seem high to me, and instead I'd expect it to be more in the couple to a few thousand range (4K seems high, but believable) not including any tax credits. Subtract that from figure with best and worst case scenario from 20-25k then should leave you at 16k-22K for the heat pump which also seems high. I'm also wondering why do duct work? Unless the current heating or cooling system already has duct work, then why go with that system for heat pumps? And if you already have ductwork done, then why is it so expensive? I feel like that poster was being taken for a ride. I'm curious about how these numbers were arrived at, and I'm not kidding you, I'd actually like to know. I also think for things like this where it's more than pocket change and you'll be living with it for years that it's prudent to get more than one quote.
I'm not kidding you. I'm really curious about this quote. Panel upgrades to 200 amps costing in or near the five would seem high to me, and instead I'd expect it to be more in the couple to a few thousand range (4K seems high, but believable) not including any tax credits. Subtract that from figure with best and worst case scenario from 20-25k then should leave you at 16k-22K for the heat pump which also seems high. I'm also wondering why do duct work? Unless the current heating or cooling system already has duct work, then why go with that system for heat pumps? And if you already have ductwork done, then why is it so expensive? I feel like that poster was being taken for a ride. I'm curious about how these numbers were arrived at, and I'm not kidding you, I'd actually like to know. I also think for things like this where it's more than pocket change and you'll be living with it for years that it's prudent to get more than one quote.
Most houses on LI have radiant heat and no duct work so it's extremely likely you will need to do so if you want central heating and AC via heat pump (vastly adding to your expense). Otherwise you have to go mini split which is also expensive and has its own draw backs. Im guessing you are probably typing this from some NYC walkup and have never had to deal with this before if you have to ask these kinds of questions.
I'm not kidding you. I'm really curious about this quote. Panel upgrades to 200 amps costing in or near the five would seem high to me, and instead I'd expect it to be more in the couple to a few thousand range (4K seems high, but believable) not including any tax credits. Subtract that from figure with best and worst case scenario from 20-25k then should leave you at 16k-22K for the heat pump which also seems high. I'm also wondering why do duct work? Unless the current heating or cooling system already has duct work, then why go with that system for heat pumps? And if you already have ductwork done, then why is it so expensive? I feel like that poster was being taken for a ride. I'm curious about how these numbers were arrived at, and I'm not kidding you, I'd actually like to know. I also think for things like this where it's more than pocket change and you'll be living with it for years that it's prudent to get more than one quote.
It was close to 5k for a panel upgrade and 200 amp in my old house in 2016. We didn’t do it and sold it 2 years later. In 2019 2 95% gas furnaces 2 one speed air handlers and 2 15 seer condensers with all the duct work with open walls was 23-24k it was around 11k just for equipment w/ no markup.
NYC's actually been having a lot of wildlife return which is nice and I think Fresh Kills has helped with that. The landfill gas isn't meant to happen indefinitely. It's for the next several years though without a firm date as supposedly it's to run as long as it's economically viable so the cost of operations has to be lower than the price for the yield it gets. Obviously the landfill will not produce gas indefinitely and is a fairly small component of the amount of gas NYC uses, and again, the phase out of natural gas for direct consumer usage as even imagined now would take decades.
(In speaking to the landfill's gas brevity) I don't know about that, but I don't know enough about it to speak at length.
Yet what you're proposing is reasonable: a graduated transition away from fossil fuels; NY, on the other hand, focuses on fixed dates - which is something that I disagree with.
The other thing, to speak to a point that you had made earlier about tax credits on solar panels: I see this Administration with two significant failings: unlike his Democrat predecessor, this President, in my view, has not connected with the people, in making persuasive arguments that support his initiatives, nor has he marketed, and made the public aware of, financial incentives for those interested in making the transition away from fossil fuel.
Most houses on LI have radiant heat and no duct work so it's extremely likely you will need to do so if you want central heating and AC via heat pump (vastly adding to your expense). Otherwise you have to go mini split which is also expensive and has its own draw backs. Im guessing you are probably typing this from some NYC walkup and have never had to deal with this before if you have to ask these kinds of questions.
I own homes including an apartment in an elevator building in NYC. I would like to buy a brownstone walkup at some point, but vacillating on it and they just seem to keep getting pricier. There are radiant heat heat pumps so you can co-opt that system. There are ductless mini-split heat pumps where you don't use the old system at all, but also don't have to put in ductwork (which is pricey even with a forced air system using natural gas so that's not specific to heat pumps). I don't understand why if this person is price-sensitive then why are they getting quoted on the more expensive methods instead of the cheaper ones. Again, it sounds like he or she is being taken for a ride or having the other options purposefully sandbagged.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gx89
It was close to 5k for a panel upgrade and 200 amp in my old house in 2016. We didn’t do it and sold it 2 years later. In 2019 2 95% gas furnaces 2 one speed air handlers and 2 15 seer condensers with all the duct work with open walls was 23-24k it was around 11k just for equipment w/ no markup.
Closer to 5K seems plausible. I know there's at least one poster here who cannot stand ductless mini-splits no matter what the price and would rather freeze to death, but I don't understand why install all this duct work for heat pumps if you're price sensitive and multiple heat pump options do not require such. Is this part of why so many people are against them? Is it that they're getting quotes for these and the contractors are *always* solely quoting systems that require ductwork?
I own homes including an apartment in an elevator building in NYC. I would like to buy a brownstone walkup at some point, but vacillating on it and they just seem to keep getting pricier. There are radiant heat heat pumps so you can co-opt that system. There are ductless mini-split heat pumps where you don't use the old system at all, but also don't have to put in ductwork (which is pricey even with a forced air system using natural gas so that's not specific to heat pumps). I don't understand why if this person is price-sensitive then why are they getting quoted on the more expensive methods instead of the cheaper ones. Again, it sounds like he or she is being taken for a ride or having the other options purposefully sandbagged.
Closer to 5K seems plausible. I know there's at least one poster here who cannot stand ductless mini-splits no matter what the price and would rather freeze to death, but I don't understand why install all this duct work for heat pumps if you're price sensitive and multiple heat pump options do not require such. Is this part of why so many people are against them? Is it that they're getting quotes for these and the contractors are *always* solely quoting systems that require ductwork?
If you truly owned homes you wouldn’t be so completely ignorant on the subject. Not buying it. Also have to say you are truly staring to come off as elitist. “Price sensitive” “can’t you get a loan?” Which honestly IF you are as wealthy as you keep Implying is typical of the “green” ideologue who can care less that “poor” public at large will be forced to pay what they don’t want or can’t afford.
Last edited by peconic117; 01-18-2023 at 02:00 PM..
If you truly owned homes you wouldn’t be so completely ignorant on the subject. Not buying it.
What part are you not buying? I don't understand this insistence that you must put in extensive amounts of new duct work in order to use heat pumps. This is literally false. I do not understand why asking this means being completely ignorant on the subject, but instead, it seems like there's some really large misunderstandings here about how heat pumps work. Instead of just claiming each other to be ignorant, can you help me understand why extensive new duct work has to be a part of a heat pump installation? It does not make any sense to me at the moment, but I'm definitely open to trying to understand this.
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