Poll: Most People Want County's Minimum Wage at $15.25 (San Francisco, Brentwood: sales, bankruptcy)

[dustin183]

This is a bad idea. Min wage at all is a slippery slope.
Let the free market do it's work.

Study economics.

[dustin183]

Originally Posted by MordinSolus

That's true. The highest-ever percentage of unionized workplaces and union members coincided with the largest and longest expansion of the middle class. Union busting has coincided with the erosion of the middle class. Now that even the possibility of unionizing is a pipedream for most of the workforce employers are free to pay as little as they want.

Right. Those unions in Detroit really were a great thing. The results are outstanding. Over the past few decades, as unions continued to force up wages, that didn't pressure businesses to take jobs elsewhere or anything. And that's why Detroit continued to blossom into the beautiful, shiny city it is today. #sarcasm

Seriously though, why is free market economics so hard for some people to understand?

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by dustin183

Seriously though, why is free market economics so hard for some people to understand?

Oh, perhaps because it has been proven a failure?

Go back to my Ayn Rand link. And, speaking of studying economics, uh, try it yourself.

[radiolibre99]

Originally Posted by dustin183

Right. Those unions in Detroit really were a great thing. The results are outstanding. Over the past few decades, as unions continued to force up wages, that didn't pressure businesses to take jobs elsewhere or anything. And that's why Detroit continued to blossom into the beautiful, shiny city it is today. #sarcasm

Seriously though, why is free market economics so hard for some people to understand?

Wages reached their peak in the 70s. The bosses couldn't even handle the thought of the ratio between worker and boss being so thin and they were scared of stagflation. So they decided to union bust. Instead of allowing the country to go a route more like Western Europe or Canada, they would've rather dismantled the whole Keynesian golden era in favor of union busting, wage stagnating, credit driven, Chicago economics.

So what you consider "the free market" was just a bunch of owners saying that there's no way in hades that I'll let a punk worker make that much and squeeze into my profits. They packed up and left. They made that decision. Blaming the results on unions is spurious.

[MordinSolus]

Originally Posted by dustin183

Right. Those unions in Detroit really were a great thing. The results are outstanding. Over the past few decades, as unions continued to force up wages, that didn't pressure businesses to take jobs elsewhere or anything. And that's why Detroit continued to blossom into the beautiful, shiny city it is today. #sarcasm

Seriously though, why is free market economics so hard for some people to understand?

You do realize that the US has never had a free market, right? Maybe you should read up on the matter instead of parroting what your media overlords tell you.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

It's true, tyger, that the system has been brilliantly built and protected by an oligarchical elite who never suffer any meaningful losses.

It's false, however, that increasing income at the lower stratas puts the middle at risk. The more lower incomes increase, the more the middle thrives.

Oh, well. At least we half agree.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

Oh, well. At least we half agree.

If you care to understand the other half, here's one example of where to study corporate manipulation of the broad economy. Increasing wages doesn't threaten growth, it stimulates consumer strength and spending.
Stock Buybacks Are Killing the American Economy - The Atlantic

[bpeeps]

Originally Posted by dustin183

Right. Those unions in Detroit really were a great thing. The results are outstanding. Over the past few decades, as unions continued to force up wages, that didn't pressure businesses to take jobs elsewhere or anything. And that's why Detroit continued to blossom into the beautiful, shiny city it is today. #sarcasm

Seriously though, why is free market economics so hard for some people to understand?

Unions are not the reason Detroit is what it is today. Weak example.

[jm1982]

Likely played a big part though. Business will always go elsewhere if they can to make a profit.

The heyday of Detroit was when businesses were doing great in Detroit.

Now there are a bunch of boarded up houses which used to be occupied by people that work productive and working.

[bpeeps]

Originally Posted by jm1982

Likely played a big part though. Business will always go elsewhere if they can to make a profit.

The heyday of Detroit was when businesses were doing great in Detroit.

Now there are a bunch of boarded up houses which used to be occupied by people that work productive and working.

The Big Three started gobbling up all independent auto makers in Detroit in the 30's and they moved/built all of their factories and buildings outside of Detroit. Unions had nothing to do with this. Most businesses Detroit is famous for, aren't actually in Detroit or even in the same county. The Big Three started a trend of businesses being built outside of the booming Detroit including sports franchises.

While I don't disagree that unions helped aide a decline in Detroit, they had nothing to do with why Detroit is the city it is today. There's a host of other reasons after The Big Three left Detroit for the suburbs, including city policies, corrupt officials, government embezzlement, years of debt buildup, funding for public education being cut all present in the 30's. The New Deal and unions like UAW didn't happen until the 40's.