WSJ says L.A. people selling homes, flocking to Phoenix and Vegas as tax realities set it (Victorville: new home, school)
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Yeah, that's always my thinking. If I'm gonna pay cash out of income for the cost of living and taxes every year for the social services, I need to have a frame where I can measure the compensations. In most cases, I feel that the compensation for most people is going to be highly personal, so it's hard to put a number on a place without a hundred asterisks.
All things considered, I can see a lot of arguments for California that have nothing to do with progressive politics, and a lot of arguments for Arizona that don't have anything to do with cheap rent. Neither is perfect, neither is wholly flawed, neither is going to be the best solution for everyone. Having said that, both have a lot of structural problems that would benefit from some creative solutions. I'd like to see the media stop herding people and start talking more honestly about the situation.
I do appreciate your input. The scenarios that got me intrested in Phoenix, began anecdotally. Friends and family doing things over there the got me exposed to the metro area. Then I began to see articles that the target income range for people moving from LA to Phoenix was the 40K to 80K income crowd. Below 40K in California you have a lot of social services offered although I can't imagine making it on 40, and above 80K you should be cushioned enough from the cost of living but I know that realistically closer to $110k.
Finally it was Linkedin's monthly who's moving report that reported for quite a while that most people from here are moving to Phoenix.
It's also interesting you mention Honeywell and Intel, as those are to my major target employers that I have an angle on. I don't know anything about layoff, though I do know that Intel is building a 3 billion dollar expansion (fab 42) and will hire 3000 people in a couple years. I've also been approached by General Dynamics, and Northrup
I've commuted from the coast inland for years, now I've been able to slice that down to the 57, inland. Traffic still sucks at 45 min to 1 hr home. And some of the political issues up north scare me in the mid to long term. We are moving to Chandler because we want too, not because we have to. Goodbye traffic and taxation!
I been to phoenix several times, mostly recently last weekend. If LA traffic was an issue for you, I don't think you're going to get much relief in Phoenix. Phoenix rush hour traffic is horrible and unlike LA, there's very few options other than using the freeway, especially if you live South of the airport, Tempe or Mesa.
Last edited by Angelino19; 02-25-2019 at 05:41 PM..
We are moving back to California. We’ve tried living in several different areas including Chandler, Gilbert, Scottsdale, Cave Creek, Tempe and Desert Ridge but each area has been unsatisfying. It’s true that for a Californian the opportunity to buy brand new homes in master planned communities is simply intoxicating. But eventually, one wants to have a life outside of the house. It’s hard here. Unless you have little kids or are retired.
We ended up in new homes because the resale homes out here were kinda gross. That’s mostly because the climate here is hard on the homes, and quite frankly, the older homes are extremely lived in. People who live here spend a great deal of time in their homes for a few reasons - the heat is oppressive and people hibernate, there’s not much to do other than walk around one of the few malls or hike (weather permitting - people are always getting rescued after being overcome by the heat). Also, the wages here don’t support the rapidly increasing cost of living here - so many people don’t have extra funds to pay for much entertainment. But that’s not really a problem, because there’s not much to do unless you like to walk around a festival of some sort - in the cooler months there’s usually some sort of pathetic artisan festival with the same artisans trying to sell their products at each venue. We stopped going to those after we realized that paying $10-15/person for the privilege of walking a few aisles staring at the same overpriced trinkets or food was a waste in more ways than one.
There is an art museum here. It’s boring. They say it’s contemporary art, but honestly Z Gallery is way more interesting. (Get a library culture pass and admission is free)
There is a kid’s science museum downtown- again, get a culture pass and save the admission for the one time you go.
There are some nice libraries here. The main one on Central - the biggest - is overrun with transients trying to escape either the heat of the summer or the cold rainy winters.
Transients begging for food and money is a fairly recent thing. Over the last couple of years it’s increasing rapidly and you see them everywhere. Unlike in California, social services here are sadly lacking. It’s heartbreaking to see these people.
To address social services a little deeper, I think most Californians would be surprised to learn that unemployment benefits in Arizona top out at $240/wk - that’s well below what CA pays. I’ve been told that there’s a new law that forces the unemployed to accept employment at a very low minimum wage after a certain amount of time (x amount of weeks) regardless of how much the unemployed person earned before or unemployment is terminated. Also the state of Arizona does not offer any sort by of disability benefit.
Apartment rents have risen tremendously and the brand new nice apartments in the nicest areas cost about the same as apartments in Sherman Oaks and Woodland Hills. You can still get older apartments at a fairly low cost. But much like the extremely lived in older houses, the older apartments are typically pretty worn. Ok - they’re gross.
I read some complaints about registering cars. It’s not truly cheap here. The car needs an inspection, and there’s a new govt fee that was recently instituted. The locals are in an uproar about it. I will say that the MVD process to register cars and get a license is a pure joy. It’s quick and easy - no appointment needed.
As home prices increase it will be interesting to see if wages increase too. This is a place where, at this point, someone can earn $40k, rent an apt and live fairly well - not luxuriously. Unless someone brings their CA equity windfall, they better have a very secure job, because if they buy a new house and have to rely on AZ wages, well the wages here are just not that great. Sure, some professionals earn in excess of 100k easily. But most jobs out here for regular people are well under that.
Oh, and regarding the man made lake that has been talked about - it’s polluted, smells in the heat and has dead bodies that surface on occasion. But Tempe Town Lake sure is pretty
I could go on, but I think I’ve said enough for now. I probably should have mentioned that Obamacare is a joke out here, nothing like what CA offers - but I won’t get into that.
I think it might be good for this area to get an influx of Californians with liberal demands. While conservative AZ was great at one time, their schools, social safety nets and entertainment is in serious need of improving. Hopefully a nice balance will be reached. Because it is true that many people just don’t see the sense or purpose in living in a place that makes it hard to enjoy life. Lots of people come here, take a breath and then figure out their next move - and leave.
Saying goodbye to my newly constructed really nice house - and saying hello to a decent apartment in a place that offers a more fulfilling life - with a BEACH! I need water after so many years of “dry heat!”
My niece recently moved to Phoenix and took a job working for the State of Arizona. Before moving she had a similar job working for the State of California, but the job in Arizona paid half as much. She worked there for 4 months and said the turn over rate is very high. Fortunately she recently landed a better paying job in the private sector and plans to stay in Phoenix another 6 months to a year. If things don't improve she moving back to LA where they've promised to re-hire her at her old job.
No one doubts what you say but at the same time, the time and money to do things are hard to come by. Not to mention tired working all week!
I understand your point. I guess it has more to do with ones own life style. In the past I considered moving to the Palm Springs area. I love the peace and tranquility and it's relatively liberal. But I came to realize there just wasn't enough for me to do there and I knew I'd miss living close to the ocean. Unlike many people in LA who are living pay check to pay check, I try to live within my means and am relatively comfortable. Phoenix would not be a good fit for me because of my political leanings, and lack of cultural amenities. I'm a "foody," I love being outdoors, I love museums, and I particularly enjoy living in a very diverse community.
Some do, but it appears most don't take advantage of it. 72F and sunny in February and some people are out taking a walk or riding a bike or doing something pleasant outdoors. But an awful lot are inside on their "devices" or watching a movie or playing computer games. It's amazing so many people choose to pay $400+/sqft to sit inside.
We are no ostriches by anymeans, but still spend more time on Netflix or in our yard than anything. It's difficult to go out and fight the crowds and traffic.
Everyone I know who moved to Phoenix from California did so because they had to, not because they wanted to.
If they could, they'd all be back here in a heartbeat.
I can't speak for the Midwesterners who move to Phoenix, though. I'm sure they love the warmer climate and proximity to California.
If proximity to California didn't matter, then El Paso and Albuquerque would be full of Midwesterners, and neither is.
Albuquerque has more problems than not being in close proximity to So. Cal. Yes, it has a nice temperate climate, but it also has a well documented crime problem and it under performs economically compared to its neighboring states.
Albuquerque has more problems than not being in close proximity to So. Cal. Yes, it has a nice temperate climate, but it also has a well documented crime problem and it under performs economically compared to its neighboring states.
Albuquerque looks like Vegas, except there is no Strip. Or much of anything else for that matter.
That's my mindset...I choose to live where I am happy
Hope everything works out for you on your move back to California
Quote:
Originally Posted by InqurngMind
Saying goodbye to my newly constructed really nice house - and saying hello to a decent apartment in a place that offers a more fulfilling life - with a BEACH! I need water after so many years of “dry heat!”
So, I've read through some of the responses in this thread and I remain curious. I got drawn to the CA/LA forum because of the article mentioned by OP (and similar articles I've ready over the last 2-3 years). Yet, when I visit CA, I don't see a sign of mass exodus alluded in these articles. I've come across areas ridden with poverty across CA, and while it is sad and concerning, it does not support the apocalyptic scenario that these articles tend to paint.
So, I was wondering what the general consensus is on whether one should move to CA. I guess there probably isn't a consensus because "it depends". I haven't lived in CA (on purpose) ever but I've become more open to considering it as my new home as I look for opportunities on the West Coast. A few things that are my focus:
1. A diverse/larger city : every city can be classified as 'diverse' but by diversity - I'm looking for variety in culture, not just that you get to see more people of a certain ethnicity/origin.
2. Food options - diversity and quality of choices.
3. Things to do - I guess I'm pretty confident that CA offers plenty on this front
4. Job opportunities - again, while I continue to read companies moving out of CA etc., I don't see a dearth of well-paying professional jobs when I search on Indeed.
5. Livability - housing and income. over 100k in income to sustain a comfortable lifestyle? When I look for housing online, I don't see too many options sub $500k (for buying) and sub- $1500 (for renting) within a good driving distance from a major city center. But, perhaps there are beyond the city centers? Or are there ?
I'm on course to select my next destination and would love to consider CA as one, but I can't seem to see a conclusive evidence anywhere.
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