WSJ says L.A. people selling homes, flocking to Phoenix and Vegas as tax realities set it (Los Angeles: tenants, utilities)

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by Wayr2go

So, I've read through some of the responses in this thread and I remain curious. I got drawn to the CA/LA forum because of the article mentioned by OP (and similar articles I've ready over the last 2-3 years). Yet, when I visit CA, I don't see a sign of mass exodus alluded in these articles. I've come across areas ridden with poverty across CA, and while it is sad and concerning, it does not support the apocalyptic scenario that these articles tend to paint.

So, I was wondering what the general consensus is on whether one should move to CA. I guess there probably isn't a consensus because "it depends". I haven't lived in CA (on purpose) ever but I've become more open to considering it as my new home as I look for opportunities on the West Coast. A few things that are my focus:
1. A diverse/larger city : every city can be classified as 'diverse' but by diversity - I'm looking for variety in culture, not just that you get to see more people of a certain ethnicity/origin.

2. Food options - diversity and quality of choices.

3. Things to do - I guess I'm pretty confident that CA offers plenty on this front

4. Job opportunities - again, while I continue to read companies moving out of CA etc., I don't see a dearth of well-paying professional jobs when I search on Indeed.

5. Livability - housing and income. over 100k in income to sustain a comfortable lifestyle? When I look for housing online, I don't see too many options sub $500k (for buying) and sub- $1500 (for renting) within a good driving distance from a major city center. But, perhaps there are beyond the city centers? Or are there ?

I'm on course to select my next destination and would love to consider CA as one, but I can't seem to see a conclusive evidence anywhere.

If you want to meet all of your objectives renting is the most likely option.


Go for it as you will by renting be in a better position to see either that you can increase your income to meet your needs or that the cost is not really worth the potential lifestyle due to the costs involved in doing all you want. Many do not mind living a simple lifestyle and not eating out everywhere, going to entertainment events, etc, just enjoying what they can do for free. The over 100K income should give you enough if you rent just what you need, not necessarily much, but the balance of your income should allow you quite a bit of freedom. Keep in mind as you get older, things change, so be prepared to substantially increase your income.

[MuscleCar]

Originally Posted by Wayr2go

So, I've read through some of the responses in this thread and I remain curious. I got drawn to the CA/LA forum because of the article mentioned by OP (and similar articles I've ready over the last 2-3 years). Yet, when I visit CA, I don't see a sign of mass exodus alluded in these articles. I've come across areas ridden with poverty across CA, and while it is sad and concerning, it does not support the apocalyptic scenario that these articles tend to paint.

So, I was wondering what the general consensus is on whether one should move to CA. I guess there probably isn't a consensus because "it depends". I haven't lived in CA (on purpose) ever but I've become more open to considering it as my new home as I look for opportunities on the West Coast. A few things that are my focus:
1. A diverse/larger city : every city can be classified as 'diverse' but by diversity - I'm looking for variety in culture, not just that you get to see more people of a certain ethnicity/origin.

2. Food options - diversity and quality of choices.

3. Things to do - I guess I'm pretty confident that CA offers plenty on this front

4. Job opportunities - again, while I continue to read companies moving out of CA etc., I don't see a dearth of well-paying professional jobs when I search on Indeed.

5. Livability - housing and income. over 100k in income to sustain a comfortable lifestyle? When I look for housing online, I don't see too many options sub $500k (for buying) and sub- $1500 (for renting) within a good driving distance from a major city center. But, perhaps there are beyond the city centers? Or are there ?

I'm on course to select my next destination and would love to consider CA as one, but I can't seem to see a conclusive evidence anywhere.

The "exodus" from CA is the $40k to $80k crowd. They get the s**t sandwich end of the deal. The poorer get copious social services and the well to do can afford it.

[nairbdes]

Originally Posted by MuscleCar

The "exodus" from CA is the $40k to $80k crowd. They get the s**t sandwich end of the deal. The poorer get copious social services and the well to do can afford it.

But even then, it depends. If you were one of the people who bought a home in the few years following the housing crash when they were much cheaper, or if you've been living here a long time and bought the home many years ago when they were also cheaper, then you can make that income and be doing OK. Which by the way, I suspect makes up a vast majority of current suburban SoCal homeowners. That explains the drastic gap between average household incomes and current home prices which don't at all reflect the income numbers proportionately.

If you're in this income range and you didn't buy a home in those relative circumstances, and you're not getting a good deal on rent right now, then yeah, you're gonna be in hardship until you leave CA or drastically increase your household income. That's the state of things right now.

[Finper]

Originally Posted by nairbdes

But even then, it depends. If you were one of the people who bought a home in the few years following the housing crash when they were much cheaper, or if you've been living here a long time and bought the home many years ago when they were also cheaper, then you can make that income and be doing OK. Which by the way, I suspect makes up a vast majority of current suburban SoCal homeowners. That explains the drastic gap between average household incomes and current home prices which don't at all reflect the income numbers proportionately.

If you're in this income range and you didn't buy a home in those relative circumstances, and you're not getting a good deal on rent right now, then yeah, you're gonna be in hardship until you leave CA or drastically increase your household income. That's the state of things right now.

yes that's true. If you recently move here cold your starting at the bottom and it's a tough hill to climb to survive here. I'm one of the middle class people and luckily I bought my place in 02. My mortgage is 1100.00. My friends never bought so they are in 1 bdrm apts and pay 1800.00 and going up every year.

[kttam186290]

Originally Posted by MuscleCar

Albuquerque looks like Vegas, except there is no Strip. Or much of anything else for that matter.

Albuquerque's got all of the crime and dysfunction of Las Vegas without any entertainment factor to redeem it.

Basically, it's a huge Victorville on steroids.

[kttam186290]

Originally Posted by MuscleCar

The "exodus" from CA is the $40k to $80k crowd. They get the s**t sandwich end of the deal. The poorer get copious social services and the well to do can afford it.

It's actually the $25k to $50k crowd. A lot of my clients who use social services and housing vouchers are moving to Nevada, Arizona, Texas and Georgia now. They get permission from the Housing Authority to "port out" to other counties and the top requests right now are (by order):

1.) Clark County, Nevada
2.) Maricopa County, Arizona
3.) Harris County, Texas
4.) Cobb County, Georgia
5.) Gwinnet County, Georgia

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

I actually did grow up in southern California, and we could barely breathe through the smog and had 3rd stage smog alerts, during which we were called off the playground at school and were not allowed outside to exercise at all. So for me, those restrictive environmental laws leads to the freedom to breathe purer air.

And I like the politics here. California is one of the most progressive states in the country.



I don't have a job that requires a commute anymore, and I'm driving against traffic. I hated driving for an hour to get from West L.A. to mid-Wilshire in the 1980s.....and there were far fewer people in L.A. then.

talking about the smog, I can remember the smog against the beautiful mountains in the 60, as well as the 80s. We lived in Altadena in the early 70s and could almost touch the mountains or it seemed that way. Of course that was 8am, but 10am you could not even see them. Thank God though we no longer live there, the smog is somewhat under control. I still wouldn't want the commute again.

[MuscleCar]

Originally Posted by kttam186290

It's actually the $25k to $50k crowd. A lot of my clients who use social services and housing vouchers are moving to Nevada, Arizona, Texas and Georgia now. They get permission from the Housing Authority to "port out" to other counties and the top requests right now are (by order):

1.) Clark County, Nevada
2.) Maricopa County, Arizona
3.) Harris County, Texas
4.) Cobb County, Georgia
5.) Gwinnet County, Georgia

That explains the low end and I dont doubt it one bit. But a notch above, according to LinkedIn (in other words those pulling their own weight) goes up to $80k. Just the right amount to be squeezed to death and look for other pastures.

[oping00]

The only place I would live in Phoenix would be scottsdale and cave creek. Nice , save, but pretentious areas.
Avg 1bed is now 1000-1400 without utilities so its about the same as orange or garden grove in OC where I am so its not cheap either, aside from the heat the politics is becoming more progressive, but still conservative. Does anybody still remember sheriff Joe.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by kttam186290

It's actually the $25k to $50k crowd. A lot of my clients who use social services and housing vouchers are moving to Nevada, Arizona, Texas and Georgia now.

There are plenty of millenials in our kids' age groups who are making 40K per year (as well as many who make double and triple that). Those at 40K don't qualify for any services. But they double up, rent, delay marriage and/or kids, and are perfectly happy here.

Most of them were born and educated in California and have no intention of leaving.