2021 Real Estate Observations (installation, retire, natural gas)

[yesmaybe]

Originally Posted by id77

Why is electric heat an issue? I'd take it over oil.

It's super expensive. Probably 3X+ oil.

[id77]

Originally Posted by yesmaybe

It's super expensive. Probably 3X+ oil.

My experience has been the other way around.

[yesmaybe]

Originally Posted by id77

My experience has been the other way around.

Not here. Maybe it'd be somewhat competitive with a heat pump.

[id77]

Originally Posted by yesmaybe

Not here. Maybe it'd be somewhat competitive with a heat pump.

What do you mean by here? My electric and oil experience were both in MA.

Granted, I haven't used oil since 2014 and electric since 2020, I'd spend more in one oil refill (which would last maybe 2 months) than I did through an entire winter of electric bills. It made me never want to go back to oil.

[yesmaybe]

Originally Posted by id77

What do you mean by here? My electric and oil experience were both in MA.

If you were in a part of the country with cheaper electricity, it'd be more competitive. At 28c, it'd be like 10 dollar oil.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by id77

Why is electric heat an issue? I'd take it over oil.

A 1976 build is going to have resistive electric baseboards. Anything built on the cheap then is also going to have iffy insulation, windows, & doors so it will be costly to heat. A heat pump is a completely different story.


In Vermont at the ski resorts, condos of that vintage all have Rinnai propane heaters with the electric baseboard as an emergency backup. Often a pellet stove in the fireplace.

[MikePRU]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

A 1976 build is going to have resistive electric baseboards. Anything built on the cheap then is also going to have iffy insulation, windows, & doors so it will be costly to heat. A heat pump is a completely different story.


In Vermont at the ski resorts, condos of that vintage all have Rinnai propane heaters with the electric baseboard as an emergency backup. Often a pellet stove in the fireplace.

Electricity was very cheap in the 80's and so some homes from the 80's also have resistive electric baseboards. To this day, a lot of finished basements and additions I walk into have electric baseboard heating because it's a lot cheaper than tying into the homes existing heating system.

I agree though, electric baseboards are and always have been "the cheap way out" and if someone is cheaping out on that than they're likely doing the minimum on other things as well.

These baseboards are expensive to use and most people I know that only have them in a limited area of their house only use them as a last resort when temperatures drop very low. Modern heat pumps are a very different animal though.

I like the idea of a house running on a modern electric heat pump. That would be a very efficient house. However, I'm concerned about having a large scale movement in the state to convert to such systems because the natural gas line that supplies our electric plants is too small and likely we'd overload the grid causing brownouts/blackouts. Ideally, anyone switching their home entirely to electric heating/cooling should seek to install solar panels. Not only would this be incredibly advantageous to the homeowner financially but the more homes that add panels, the less stress there is on our existing grid.

[robr2]

Originally Posted by MikePRU

I like the idea of a house running on a modern electric heat pump. That would be a very efficient house. However, I'm concerned about having a large scale movement in the state to convert to such systems because the natural gas line that supplies our electric plants is too small and likely we'd overload the grid causing brownouts/blackouts. Ideally, anyone switching their home entirely to electric heating/cooling should seek to install solar panels. Not only would this be incredibly advantageous to the homeowner financially but the more homes that add panels, the less stress there is on our existing grid.

Natural gas is being used either way - heat the house directly with it or convert it to electricity for a heat pump. Yeah yeah, I know that not all our electricity is generated from NG.

That said, I have no idea which is more efficient. Would I use less BTU's with the furnace or heat pump?

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by robr2

Natural gas is being used either way - heat the house directly with it or convert it to electricity for a heat pump. Yeah yeah, I know that not all our electricity is generated from NG.

That said, I have no idea which is more efficient. Would I use less BTU's with the furnace or heat pump?

A heat pump gives you the option of putting panels on the roof. When I got the phone call in January 2010 that my forced hot air system was "condemned" and I needed a whole new system, a heat pump would have been the better solution than a natural gas boiler with baseboard and later radiant in the bathroom floor. The whole house was ripped open.

[johngolf]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

A heat pump gives you the option of putting panels on the roof. When I got the phone call in January 2010 that my forced hot air system was "condemned" and I needed a whole new system, a heat pump would have been the better solution than a natural gas boiler with baseboard and later radiant in the bathroom floor. The whole house was ripped open.

What do you mean by condemned? What type system did you install? Also if forced hot air it meant you had duct work so a new system with AC and gas heat or a heat pump system (with electric auxiliary heat strips) would have seemed to be the way to go.