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yes if you want affordable homes go somewhere other than MA because attitudes like yours are the norm elitism and painful exceptionalism. And if you're not elite? f- off. I've got mine. F you.
For that reason, it will never be affordable and perpetually push its middle class away. An entire state of whiners and complainers unwilling to make the necessary changes to do anything to bring conditions back to sanity. It would be funny if it weren't ripping families apart.
The issue is you cant just move like that it cost 10 thousand dollars to move to UT or CA. If you're struggling you cant just do that. with what money?? That should go without saying.
But so long as you're content. I don't think I need to say anymore you're just circling the drain of nonsensical unaffordability. Lost cause. God's speed anyone who wasn't born pre 1980 or with a silver spoon.
No people who want to move here cant just "move here" it is too damn expensive. You know that. Well never know exactly how many people wanted to move to MA but couldn't due to NIMBY zoning. What makes MA MA isn't 1 acre lot minimus that one of the more preposterous things Ive read on this thread.
You're basically telling people who are happy in their towns that you would prefer to see their community changed because it's not attainable to the masses. And if they can afford more space? f- off, we need ours. Your position is the flip side of the same coin.
Putting your anger aside for a moment, you still haven't answered the question: for those who can afford those towns and do like them, what would you tell them to get them on board? Where do they go if they don't like the town plan you've foisted upon them? This question very much requires an answer for any plan to redevelop to survive a town vote. Going in to a low density, affluent town (MA or elsewhere) with a 'F the rich' attitude is a recipe for disaster, yet as far as I can tell that's exactly what you're proposing governments do. Those people will leave and take their tax dollars with them.
You also went from having lots of MA friends living in MD to nobody can afford to move out of MA in two posts. Which is it?
You're basically telling people who are happy in their towns that you would prefer to see their community changed because it's not attainable to the masses. And if they can afford more space? f- off, we need ours. Your position is the flip side of the same coin.
Putting your anger aside for a moment, you still haven't answered the question: for those who can afford those towns and do like them, what would you tell them to get them on board? Where do they go if they don't like the town plan you've foisted upon them? This question very much requires an answer for any plan to redevelop to survive a town vote. Going in to a low density, affluent town (MA or elsewhere) with a 'F the rich' attitude is a recipe for disaster, yet as far as I can tell that's exactly what you're proposing governments do. Those people will leave and take their tax dollars with them.
You also went from having lots of MA friends living in MD to nobody can afford to move out of MA in two posts. Which is it?
The people who moved out of MA were very young people who lived with their parents. They calculated they couldn’t afford to ever own a home and moved before they had any financial obligations, possessions or assets. Obviously they could afford to move more so than a single parent or working family both kids a mortgage or rent. Cmon now. The cost of renting a truck, first, last security, brokers, appliance and utilities start ups fee etc. it’s not a light decision if you have responsibilities..every single one of my friend would be considered a young middle class professional and gainfully employed since leaving MA. Through them I meet people from all over MA Acton, Hamilton, Norwell, you name it. All of us agree MA was untenable.
I wouldn’t say anything to these people- hell no. I’d legislate over their head if I could. I’d never sign up for that headache. I can’t deal with the snobbery. My head would explode.
It not an F the rich attitude because I’m not f-ing you. No one is bothering you. But stop coddling the rich. They don’t need to be coddled.
You have the F everybody who’s not rich attitude. You’re denying them housing they could have.
It’s were gonna build some ish over hear- it up about it because you’re fine. This is for the greater good. I’m not taking your home or building on your lot so mind your business. Then maybe I’d called them selfish, self absorbed, parochial blowhards… depending on the crowd response.
If you develop commercial and residential in step with one another traffic impacts are minimized. The state has a responsibility to work with towns to either provide, incentivize or mandate infrastructure upgrades. The population of MA is over 7M it need more transportation infrastructure than when the population was 6M in 1990. Let’s get moving.
Again if people are unwilling to build and they’d rather listen to the chorus of complaints and watch their kids move 2200 miles away for the next 70 years. That’s dumb. MA trying to reinvent the wheel is pointless… the blueprint exists we just lack the local yokel leadership just lacks the humility, vision and wherewithal to do anything.
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 03-16-2022 at 12:50 PM..
I think it's a tough situation. I think there already are establishments similar to what you're describing. The thing is that many people want to live in a leafy green suburb in a house with some space once they have kids. I see many people today living in places like south boston and dorchester - even with kids. These are not necessarily affordable homes for many people though.
If you added in some townhouses in Milton how much do you think they would go for? I can bet that they are still not going to be 'affordable' for young people in their 20's just starting out.
I also agree that people who are homeowners often 'freak out' when they hear about an apt complex or condos going in near them. It isn't viewed as a positive for the most part. It just leads to more noise and more traffic which people don't want. If they did want that they'd be living in the city.
The people who moved out of MA were very young people who lived with their parents. They calculated they couldn’t afford to ever own a home and moved before they had any financial obligations, possessions or assets. Obviously they could afford to move more so than a single parent or working family both kids a mortgage or rent. Cmon now. The cost of renting a truck, first, last security, brokers, appliance and utilities start ups fee etc. it’s not a light decision if you have responsibilities..every single one of my friend would be considered a young middle class professional and gainfully employed since leaving MA. Through them I meet people from all over MA Acton, Hamilton, Norwell, you name it. All of us agree MA was untenable.
I wouldn’t say anything to these people- hell no. I’d legislate over their head if I could. I’d never sign up for that headache. I can’t deal with the snobbery. My head would explode.
It not an F the rich attitude because I’m not f-ing you. No one is bothering you. But stop coddling the rich. They don’t need to be coddled.
You have the F everybody who’s not rich attitude. You’re denying them housing they could have.
It’s were gonna build some ish over hear- it up about it because you’re fine. This is for the greater good. I’m not taking your home or building on your lot so mind your business. Then maybe I’d called them selfish, self absorbed, parochial blowhards… depending on the crowd response.
If you develop commercial and residential in step with one another traffic impacts are minimized. The state has a responsibility to work with towns to either provide, incentivize or mandate infrastructure upgrades. The population of MA is over 7M it need more transportation infrastructure than when the population was 6M in 1990. Let’s get moving.
Again if people are unwilling to build and they’d rather listen to the chorus of complaints and watch their kids move 2200 miles away for the next 70 years. That’s dumb. MA trying to reinvent the wheel is pointless… the blueprint exists we just lack the local yokel leadership just lacks the humility, vision and wherewithal to do anything.
It's not F the poor, it's being realistic. If we're talking my personal perspective, I see both punching up and punching down as counterproductive, but I am unemotionally blunt about the situation and the situation isn't favorable to the middle-class. The wealthy control the levers of power, and all of the eat the rich memes and tweets in the world isn't going to change that. Local governments aren't going to go biting the hand that feeds them the most. Any real change at a local level must have some plan for getting at least part of that population on-board.
Unless you're proposing the towns reclaim already public lands or use eminent domain (which would get challenged hard in courts if used for this), someone is buying some property from someone else. So...yes, you are taking someone's home or building or lot, and telling them they're wealthy and to get it over it isn't a very effective approach. I see it would turn your stomach to have to play appeasement to this demographic, but when they already own the land you need for your plan and/or are willing and capable to out-bid developers to keep that land safely away from such development, appeasement is pretty much exactly what you have to do.
Now if you're talking about a developer who has already procured the lot and is just trying to get approval for their new mega-mixed-used shops-n-condos get-up, that's a little different matter, but that has a better chance of success in Boston and other already-somewhat-dense cities where a council usually has final say. In the low density affluent towns where you think this is needed the most, well...any realistic chance of success is going to require coddling.
I think if people in MA considered other towns in the area instead of moving out of state that could be a start. There does seem to be this snob factor of not wanting to move to certain lower end towns but also not wanting to be that far away from Boston.
I mean if you can't afford Hingham or Duxbury moving to Braintree or Canton isn't going to ruin anyone's life last I checked.
I have seen people who CAN afford a place like Milton and they chose Braintree over Milton because they wanted more house. I am the type who would rather buy the worst house in the best town than pick a big new house in a not so great town. Everyone is different though.
There is no shortage of people who can afford 2-3 million dollar homes it seems around here but also plenty who cannot afford a million dollar home.
TLDR: There's a lot nice towns in MA that no one wants to live in because they feel they are beneath them...and those are often the people who leave.
I think if people in MA considered other towns in the area instead of moving out of state that could be a start. There does seem to be this snob factor of not wanting to move to certain lower end towns but also not wanting to be that far away from Boston.
I mean if you can't afford Hingham or Duxbury moving to Braintree or Canton isn't going to ruin anyone's life last I checked.
I have seen people who CAN afford a place like Milton and they chose Braintree over Milton because they wanted more house. I am the type who would rather buy the worst house in the best town than pick a big new house in a not so great town. Everyone is different though.
There is no shortage of people who can afford 2-3 million dollar homes it seems around here but also plenty who cannot afford a million dollar home.
TLDR: There's a lot nice towns in MA that no one wants to live in because they feel they are beneath them...and those are often the people who leave.
Really??? I just get the impression that the people who leave (among others), are the ones who don't feel like paying $600K for a split level in Weymouth.
Really??? I just get the impression that the people who leave (among others), are the ones who don't feel like paying $600K for a split level in Weymouth.
600k for a split level in Weymouth is a good deal these days
Who wants to live in that type of dense housing? There are many rental and condo developments that look like that across the Greater Boston region. I just don't think that is what the market wants at this point in time. Additionally, as I frequently point out here on C-D, many suburban Boston towns do not have the municipal infrastructure (sewer, water, etc.) to support those types of developments.
Are you kidding me? You see a lot of empty townhouse condos around here??? I looked at one that was gone within the first weekend. You may have noticed, but the new shoe boxes they are shoving down our throats especially in Boston and the inner suburbs (but elsewhere as well) and calling "housing", is absolutely hideous.
GMAFB. It's truly disturbing how aloof some people can be.
Last edited by massnative71; 03-16-2022 at 09:36 PM..
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Re
??? I looked at one that was gone within the first weekend. You may have noticed, but the new shoe boxes they are shoving down our throats especially in Boston and the inner suburbs (but elsewhere as well) and calling "housing", is absolutely hideous.
