2023 Real Estate Observations (Boston, Lynn, Chelmsford: student loan, water heater, homebuyer)

[gf2020]

Originally Posted by massnative71

Even if you're so selfish as to not give a damn about those people currently needing housing or that your kids can afford a home, or the economic and overall character and health of the region...

I'm not selfish, my response, which you edited, was to the comment from msRB311 that "People simply want to see prices of SFH go down." I questioned if that is really true and if so, why?

The reality is that prices don't go down over the long term. Most forum members here are just too young to remember housing price increases in the 1980s or even in the early 2000s. The escalation of prices in Greater Boston in the past 5 or 10 years may be dramatic to some but it is not unprecedented or even record breaking in percentage terms. Home prices in Boston doubled from 1983 to 1986. Guess what, 30-year mortgage rates were from 10-13% in those years. If this forum existed back then imagine the complaints we would have seen!

Inflation will cause some price fluctuation, but housing prices are really a function of market demand, nothing more, nothing less. $50K over asking price, $300K over asking price, $5000 below asking price, none of that matters. Several people on this forum are hung up on the notion of houses selling for over asking price, that does not matter. Whether someone would not pay $1 million to live in Weymouth, or $3 million to live in Hingham, does not matter. What matters is that it is worth that price to someone. That is how the free market works and that is what drives real estate prices in any particular geography.

Do I wish things were more affordable for my children or my neighbors' children? Maybe. One of my sons already purchased a home in Salem in October 2021, my other son is moving to Florida after his wedding in June because his new bride will be starting medical school in August. Home ownership is not a right, it is a privilege. A privilege that in this area means you have to have a pretty good income, you need to be frugal to save for a down payment, and you may need a fair amount of luck.

Finally, living in Greater Boston may not be for everyone. The Greater Boston area is expensive because it offers a critical mass of criteria that are only found in a few other areas of the country, and they are all expensive too. Strong job market, multiple higher education institutions, access to world class health care, professional sports teams, proximity to ocean and mountains, cultural institutions. If any one of those things are not important to someone, then they may want to reconsider living here. We have close friends who did just that and they moved to Georgia. I might not go to a Red Sox game every season, or go see the Nutcracker at the ballet, but I like knowing they are there, and I am willing to pay a premium for that.

[New Englander]

Originally Posted by gf2020

Finally, living in Greater Boston may not be for everyone. The Greater Boston area is expensive because it offers a critical mass of criteria that are only found in a few other areas of the country, and they are all expensive too. Strong job market, multiple higher education institutions, access to world class health care, professional sports teams, proximity to ocean and mountains, cultural institutions. If any one of those things are not important to someone, then they may want to reconsider living here. We have close friends who did just that and they moved to Georgia. I might not go to a Red Sox game every season, or go see the Nutcracker at the ballet, but I like knowing they are there, and I am willing to pay a premium for that.

Well said. The Boston area definitely has a lot going for it. That is the reason why many people are willing to pay a price premium on housing and other areas. I built, expanded and eventually sold my first venture all in Boston. I have nothing but great things to say about the city/metro region.

Even now, Boston is HQ for my new firm, despite the NYC office generating higher revenues. The critical mass of talented people, the innovation economy and a great quality of life are unbeatable in my opinion.

Finally, each area of the country has it's benefits/drawbacks. Taking your example of Georgia, you won't find me even visiting places like Atlanta unless it's for a conference/business. Not a fan of the summer weather, southern lifestyle and living in an inland city with sprawl. However, for someone else these are non-issues and they may find aspects of Georgia to be delightful. So it's all about what works for you and your family.

[msRB311]

Boston has always had those things.

[mikeugh]

Originally Posted by msRB311

Boston has always had those things.

Yes, and its always been one of the more expensive places to live. As its improved in cleanliness and good jobs while so many places have declined (rust belt, etc), the premium has increased. Especially since so little housing is built.

[newenglandgal123]

Originally Posted by simplexsimon

I liked the handwritten note but this third touch did feel a little desperate. I'm only sharing the numbers because if true is an indicator of a continued strong market for solid homes. We went to the open house and even though it hadn't been updated since the late 2000's, everything was in very good shape.

No offense, but that's one reason I always tell my realtors I don't want open houses when I sell.... no nosy neighbors or looky loos....serious buyers only! lol How many folks here have actually made an offer on a house they saw at an open house versus by a scheduled showing? I know all the places I made offers on have been after a private/scheduled showing not as a result of dropping by an open house.

[masssachoicetts]

Originally Posted by gf2020

I'm not selfish, my response, which you edited, was to the comment from msRB311 that "People simply want to see prices of SFH go down." I questioned if that is really true and if so, why?

The reality is that prices don't go down over the long term. Most forum members here are just too young to remember housing price increases in the 1980s or even in the early 2000s. The escalation of prices in Greater Boston in the past 5 or 10 years may be dramatic to some but it is not unprecedented or even record breaking in percentage terms. Home prices in Boston doubled from 1983 to 1986. Guess what, 30-year mortgage rates were from 10-13% in those years. If this forum existed back then imagine the complaints we would have seen!

Inflation will cause some price fluctuation, but housing prices are really a function of market demand, nothing more, nothing less. $50K over asking price, $300K over asking price, $5000 below asking price, none of that matters. Several people on this forum are hung up on the notion of houses selling for over asking price, that does not matter. Whether someone would not pay $1 million to live in Weymouth, or $3 million to live in Hingham, does not matter. What matters is that it is worth that price to someone. That is how the free market works and that is what drives real estate prices in any particular geography.

Do I wish things were more affordable for my children or my neighbors' children? Maybe. One of my sons already purchased a home in Salem in October 2021, my other son is moving to Florida after his wedding in June because his new bride will be starting medical school in August. Home ownership is not a right, it is a privilege. A privilege that in this area means you have to have a pretty good income, you need to be frugal to save for a down payment, and you may need a fair amount of luck.

Finally, living in Greater Boston may not be for everyone. The Greater Boston area is expensive because it offers a critical mass of criteria that are only found in a few other areas of the country, and they are all expensive too. Strong job market, multiple higher education institutions, access to world class health care, professional sports teams, proximity to ocean and mountains, cultural institutions. If any one of those things are not important to someone, then they may want to reconsider living here. We have close friends who did just that and they moved to Georgia. I might not go to a Red Sox game every season, or go see the Nutcracker at the ballet, but I like knowing they are there, and I am willing to pay a premium for that.

This is very classist.

[matrix5k]

Originally Posted by newenglandgal123

No offense, but that's one reason I always tell my realtors I don't want open houses when I sell.... no nosy neighbors or looky loos....serious buyers only! lol How many folks here have actually made an offer on a house they saw at an open house versus by a scheduled showing? I know all the places I made offers on have been after a private/scheduled showing not as a result of dropping by an open house.

Huh? Our first house had 5 offers after the open house. About 30 people came. I don't know how many were nosy neighbors, I wasn't there. We didn't have any private showings.

[matrix5k]

Originally Posted by gf2020

I'm not selfish, my response, which you edited, was to the comment from msRB311 that "People simply want to see prices of SFH go down." I questioned if that is really true and if so, why?

The reality is that prices don't go down over the long term. Most forum members here are just too young to remember housing price increases in the 1980s or even in the early 2000s. The escalation of prices in Greater Boston in the past 5 or 10 years may be dramatic to some but it is not unprecedented or even record breaking in percentage terms. Home prices in Boston doubled from 1983 to 1986. Guess what, 30-year mortgage rates were from 10-13% in those years. If this forum existed back then imagine the complaints we would have seen!

House prices doubled from what, like $75k to $150k? That's nothing compared to how much prices have increased in the past few years. 10-13% interest on a 150k house is nothing compared to 7% interest on the same home that costs a million+ today. Not to mention that same home is 40 years older so probably needs another 100k+ in renovations to make it the same condition as in the 80s.

Your post basically says you paid nothing for your house in the 80s and don't care about anyone else. "I'm not selfish but F everyone else, they can't live here" LoL. I'm guessing you own a vacation home in the Cape, NH or Maine that you also paid nothing for as well.

[newenglandgal123]

Originally Posted by matrix5k

Huh? Our first house had 5 offers after the open house. About 30 people came. I don't know how many were nosy neighbors, I wasn't there. We didn't have any private showings.

I've sold about 5-6 houses in the past ~10 years and never had my realtors do an open house w/any of them. They all got multiple offers within the first day or two of being listed. I only had scheduled showings. I was just curious how many people make offers after going to an open house versus on a house they specifically make an appointment to go see and if one seems to result in more offers versus the other. My line of thought is that while an open house can attract some serious buyers, at the same time it seems to attract a lot of nosy neighbors and lookie loos who aren't necessarily even in the market to buy.

[simplexsimon]

Originally Posted by newenglandgal123

No offense, but that's one reason I always tell my realtors I don't want open houses when I sell.... no nosy neighbors or looky loos....serious buyers only! lol How many folks here have actually made an offer on a house they saw at an open house versus by a scheduled showing? I know all the places I made offers on have been after a private/scheduled showing not as a result of dropping by an open house.

No offense taken, but would they have gotten 18 offers without an open house? Unlikely.

The house I’m in now had an open house and our offer said they needed to accept before the next day’s open house. We paid $15k over ask which felt like a lot at the time, but is now sort of laughable.