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I don't think Memphis is ready for subway or any other type of heavy or light rail.
First, there isn't funding in the area. People in Memphis barely want to keep the city running the way it is not to mention upgrading public infrustructure.
Second, the city doesn't have the density to support that type of transit. Most cities have 7 to 10k people per square mile. Memphis is too sprawled and has too much of a hick town/delta mentality.
What could possibly work in Memphis would be BRT (bus rapid transit). If planners could start now with transit oriented developments in the 240 loop in 10 years we could possibly see the start of something that would work for memphis.
1. I don't know why N. Miss. was omitted, but the reality is that INTER-state transportation requires COOPERATION of politicians from all states involved. So . . . if N. Miss is willing to contribute to a system to connect with Memphis, then by all means, welcome. This isn't singling N. Miss. out. The same procedure was required for Interstate 69. The same happens often in the "Bistate" coalition of Missouri and Illinois to help St. Louis with its Metrolink. St. Louis does not pay for everything in ESL and the like. The exception has been the Med, but luckily Arkansas and Mississippi have woken up and their legislators have agreed to help support the primary trauma hospital serving their citizens.
There needs to be more cooperation in the region. That requires willingness of the politicians to come to the table and do what's right for the region. My suggestion, for example, for luring projects is 1) don't look first to poach projects from other cities in the region; 2) first focus on competing against other metros, bring projects to the region, then compete with each other. This may sound contradictory, but if it were me, I'd go at it like this: I would love/prefer that all the new projects my city gets is from other regions (i.e. Charlotte, Atlanta, Birmingham, whatever), and would cooperate with everyone in the region to pursue those projects; that said, sometimes projects are available for relocation (such as distribution) within the metro, and I'd submit proposals for that as well, but conduct business in a way that does not burn bridges on regional cooperation. I think both Memphis and the burbs are both equally susceptible to barbs directed at each other, and that's counter-productive.
2) That digression aside, I think instead of a money-wasting subway system, or even light rail, we should seek inspiration from Curitiba, Brazil. A RBT has the benefit of not requiring fixed rail lines. The problem is figuring out a way to overcome stigma issues. I know that light rail does not immunize cities from stigma issues though. Perhaps the best way to overcome stigma is security, cost, and comfort. There was an article in the WSJ I think on Saturday regarding the increase in commuter bus transport in the metroplex (DC-Boston-NYC), and how many providers were trying to upgrade their brands to avoid comparisons with Greyhound, including free wifi in the buses.
A rep post asked me what's in it for the burbs to cooperate (I think). I believe that the burbs hurt themselves when all they try to do is poach, without investing in the region by participating in regional marketing, either formally or informally. If all North Mississippi ever did was seek to poach airline traffic, poach stock car racing events, poach the PGA tour (each of which has been suggested that they were pursuing in the past decade or so), then that hurts the region. Because of the wasted (imo) effort of other parts of the region fighting among themselves. Thankfully, NoMS also pursued new attractions, bringing new things to the metro. Thankfully, the Memphis business community (and I believe the political one as well) has been on board encouraging the development of Riverbend and Myriad, as well as Toyota. Unfortunately, we have to wait to see if the former two will ever be realized. And the third is on hold until the economy improves. But the cooperation and the pursuit should not be diminished in the least.
Again, I wouldn't put a moratorium on shifting from one part of the region to another, as long as there is some investment in growing the pot as a whole. But if all you do is take, and expect/depend on Memphis or other parts to do the hunting, and scavenge off of that, then eff em. Until a few years ago, I had been critical of NoMs b/c I thought they were taking that approach. No doubt the relations aren't the best, but I'm glad for efforts to bring new food to the table by any part of the region.
Second, the city doesn't have the density to support that type of transit. Most cities have 7 to 10k people per square mile. Memphis is too sprawled and has too much of a hick town/delta mentality.
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This is 100% correct. Memphis is far too light on density in the metropolitan area, for transit to be supported, ridden, and ultimately, somewhat profitable (rare for new systems). Memphis needs block after block of extremely dense population with rows and rows of highrises 6, 8, 10 stories high at least, to make this proposed route feasible.
Hate to dash the dreams of the proposal. But, Memphis city should probably grow another 1 million people, with the metro gaining another 2 million or so, for it to really work on any level.
Second, the city doesn't have the density to support that type of transit. Most cities have 7 to 10k people per square mile. Memphis is too sprawled and has too much of a hick town/delta mentality.
QUOTE]
This is 100% correct. Memphis is far too light on density in the metropolitan area, for transit to be supported, ridden, and ultimately, somewhat profitable (rare for new systems). Memphis needs block after block of extremely dense population with rows and rows of highrises 6, 8, 10 stories high at least, to make this proposed route feasible.
Hate to dash the dreams of the proposal. But, Memphis city should probably grow another 1 million people, with the metro gaining another 2 million or so, for it to really work on any level.
Interesting point about the area growing by around 2 million and the city gaining 1 million. That would be a very good proposal. The only way for that to happen would be for the area to become very probusiness and attract new residents from all over the world.
Memphis could really become a area for smart growth and become a true model city if they wanted to. When I say they I am referring to the people that live in that area not only polititians and big businesses.
I know here in Chicago we are having a hard time paying for the El, Metra, Pace and CTA buses. I could only imagine what problems Memphis would have.
I agree that we need to aggressively attract international residents. EDUCATED internationals. To that end, I think higher education (colleges and universities' excellence) is the most important as well as, obviously, job opps.
In addition to the population density and the way the city is structured, there is another problem with subways. The ones in other cities, like NYC, were built a very long time ago at an earlier stage in the development of those places. The cost and disruption of doing so in today's world in today's dollars would be intolerable. In other words, you can't just tear Memphis apart for this idea, this far down the road.
If that doesn't impress anyone, maybe somebody from Boston listening in will describe how their "Big Dig" worked out. It would be enlightening and frightening.
That aside...some practical considerations...it'd cost like a Moon shot, so the federal government is the only entity with the money to even consider such a thing. It would have to be built and owned by them. And, there's only one way to make people ride it (unless it's just being built to get the money spent); and that's to ban automobiles from competing routes. Then, there's the question how people are expected to travel to the stations if they are not in walking distance. More driving of cars to do that? And where will they all be parked? And where is everyone going to go who will be dislocated by the construction?
Memphis at one time did have an inter-city trolley system and it went out of business. It died out for the same reason the eight railroad companies here dropped passenger service...rail travel lacks the automobile's flexibility. There's only one left, Amtrak, run by the federal gov't. Its fares don't cover the costs.
Also, it's sometimes suggested that the Class 1 railroads share their rights of way with light rail. That's not a good idea for much the same reasons subways are not a good idea. The existing tracks couldn't be shared anyway because of being in use for their main intended purpose.
Anyway, there's nothing wrong with visionary ideas. Many useful things come of them. But, that doesn't mean all visionary dreams are good ones. We've already found that out the hard way on the Pyramid and don't need any far worse examples.
In addition to the population density and the way the city is structured, there is another problem with subways. The ones in other cities, like NYC, were built a very long time ago at an earlier stage in the development of those places. The cost and disruption of doing so in today's world in today's dollars would be intolerable. In other words, you can't just tear Memphis apart for this idea, this far down the road.
If that doesn't impress anyone, maybe somebody from Boston listening in will describe how their "Big Dig" worked out. It would be enlightening and frightening.
That aside...some practical considerations...it'd cost like a Moon shot, so the federal government is the only entity with the money to even consider such a thing. It would have to be built and owned by them. And, there's only one way to make people ride it (unless it's just being built to get the money spent); and that's to ban automobiles from competing routes. Then, there's the question how people are expected to travel to the stations if they are not in walking distance. More driving of cars to do that? And where will they all be parked? And where is everyone going to go who will be dislocated by the construction?
Memphis at one time did have an inter-city trolley system and it went out of business. It died out for the same reason the eight railroad companies here dropped passenger service...rail travel lacks the automobile's flexibility. There's only one left, Amtrak, run by the federal gov't. Its fares don't cover the costs.
Also, it's sometimes suggested that the Class 1 railroads share their rights of way with light rail. That's not a good idea for much the same reasons subways are not a good idea. The existing tracks couldn't be shared anyway because of being in use for their main intended purpose.
Anyway, there's nothing wrong with visionary ideas. Many useful things come of them. But, that doesn't mean all visionary dreams are good ones. We've already found that out the hard way on the Pyramid and don't need any far worse examples.
I think Memphis would be best served by utilizing it's existing trolley and adding trolley lines to it--and focus on bringing the trolley back to life all over the city--in areas where it could be utilized the most.
Great points about the traffic problems and people driving to and having to park cars to ride the subways--that presents a problem all by itself. Memphis is simply too large, spread out, flat, and suburban for a subway system to work--at least at this "low" population level. The whole area would need at least a couple million more people for it to really begin to work.
Memphis cannot have an underground subway because Memphis sits on a fault line.
Money, logistics, and population don't matter much when the underlying proposal is impossible in the first place.
I admire the OP's sense of adventure and ingenuity. But I can assure you, first-hand, that every possible scenario for mass transit has been considered for the City in the last few years, and underground travel was the first out the window and will not be revisited.
I think Memphis would be best served by utilizing it's existing trolley and adding trolley lines to it--and focus on bringing the trolley back to life all over the city--in areas where it could be utilized the most.
Other than the fact that they look cute, I don't see any advantage of a trolley over a bus - and some considerable disadvantages.
The biggest disadvantage is the millions it would cost to install rails (and the disruption of traffic during the process) all over the city.
Bus routes can be quickly and easily changed over time as needed. Not so easy with trolley lines.
I don't know how much a single trolley costs, but I'd bet it might be even more than a bus simply because they are very limited production...or refurbished antiques.
Memphians as a whole have never taken to public transportation, and likely never will. Part of it is the culture of using your own car (I guess we're like southern California in that respect!). I think the main reason is that there isn't really a central business district like some other cities. People work all over town...and all over the surrounding area...and live all over the place. So many people going in so many different directions at varying times makes it difficult for public transportion to be an attractive option.
Then there is the time factor. You can always get from point A to point B quicker in your car than you can using the bus system....sometimes HOURS quicker. And you don't have to walk blocks and blocks to get from the bus stop to your actual destination.
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But, Memphis city should probably grow another 1 million people, with the metro gaining another 2 million or so, for it to really work on any level.
