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crime in Mexico is at its worst livel with FeCal(Calderon), that's why there are so many protests in cities like: Cd. Juarez, etc, and slogans like "no mas sangre"
many many mexicans live in fear... I guess the guys here saying that mexico is a paradise for security are the privileged ones...
The same can be said for the USA. I have never been assaulted but I know a number of people who have, I have a relative whose sister was murdered, I know a guy who had a carjacking done on him, my aunt suffered a mugging, I work with a woman who was mugged. I know a guy whose brother was killed in a gang slaying, I was close enough to that family to attend the funeral services. I know quite a number of people whose homes were broken into and burglarized. And myself and many who have had a vehicle stolen from them.
I also work with someone who still lives in Juarez, and as bad as things are there, she has never actually witnessed a killing or anything, she said sometimes she has passed by a street where she's seen police lights so figures something had taken place.
Much of Mexico is as safe or safer than parts of the USA.
And what do you propose? Everyone flee Mexico? Or everyone who can flee Mexico but leave the most helpless behind? Then what? What do you want to become of the country you claim to love? The people leaving aren't going to make needed reforms, they won't build up the infrastructure, create jobs, work to decrease violence and crime, they won't build safe neighborhoods.
Is it good to have Mexico become like Juarez where a third of the houses already sit empty? Stores and restaurants are closed and abandoned? And those that remain become all the more desperate and jobless?
If I mentioned that many Mexicans had left the country out of fear for their lives, was only to show that there was a real concern. I'm also in no way advocating Mexicans to go to the U.S., take over the U.S. or become part of the U.S. Please don't compare me with your cohorts. That is for extremists with ideas like building a China wall with moats, alligators and electric wires. Nor am I comparing Mexico and the U.S. If you read the OP, you would realize, I am pro solutions. However, it is a process and in the meantime, it is what it is.
What is real, is that Mexican citizens are no longer conforming with the current status. Mexico is a great country. It has democracy. Its a middle class country. Mexicans are aware that Mexico is fast approaching to a first world country and politics are the number one concern. I don't believe that pacifying someone by telling them that everything is fine, is okay. These problems are real and are not to the level of the country that it is. Mexicans are not sitting down and waiting for change to occur on its own. They are actually doing something about it.
For starters, its in their right to address these issues.
Zacatecana, your family and your town have very bad luck.
In cities that are labeled as hazardous (Monterrey, Juarez, Tijuana), have millions of people who have never witnessed a situation of risk.
They continue with their lives and see on television things happen, but go with caution.
When you get to be the victim of a crime, no matter what city or country you are, you are marked. Some people do migrate but others do it influenced by the media.
Now for those who say that USA is a paradise for security, this country is full of areas called ghettos where you have higher chances of being killed if you travel a night than in cities like Monterrey and Juarez.
In no other country is so much division between areas as in the U.S., and you can see in this forum, urban areas are divided by income and race, contempt for his fellow man among you is obvious.
mexguy, I would be the first to tell you about the conditions in the U.S. Of course, it is no paradise and I totally agree with you about the segregation of races. Its the most race obsessed country I know. I am also aware that things can happen anywhere. I am discussing Mexico as an individual country but in this forum we keep comparing it to the U.S. As you say, it is unavoidable, I suppose. That was not my aim.
I wouldn't say its a matter of complete luck. You really have to look at the statistics. Though I am a "pueblerina" not all happened in my hometown. My cousin that was assaulted by strangers in her own home, which they actually robbed her home and physically abused her 10 year old son, happened in the state of Mexico. My cousin that was picked up by the police and is still waiting for a hearing (its been almost four years), also happened in the state of Mexico. Both of these in two different cities. My aunt was robbed on the bus traveling somewhere between the border where she lives and Jalisco. I witnessed the kidnapping at a hotel I stayed in the Capital of Zacatecas, no where near my hometown. My uncle was robbed at the ATM in Guadalajara.
As you can see, I have family in many parts of the Republic. During this war between narcos in my hometown, I can tell you endless stories about people in my neighborhood in Zacatecas, that have been affected. Many of them were innocent people that I grew up with. You know in our culture we tend to have names "apodos" for everyone. They were looking for one guy and took everyone in the town with the same "apodo". A few came back (one of them was my own cousin that was kidnapped) but were unrecognizable. During the first time they took over the town, 25 never returned and some had nothing to do with the drug war. Though I do agree with you that the majority of people dying are people that are involved in the same cartels. I cant help to think that if the government stops the fight, this drug war will continue among the cartels and will continue gaining power.
I was making a point that one, is as laughable as the other. I never said anyone said "Mexico is the paradise of security". I'm not sure how you missed that.
What about my other point, was that somehow incorrect too?
You know what's funny about threads like this, anything dealing with crime in Mexico, several people pipe up about "Well crime in the USA is this that and the other!". That's all well and good, but the thread is about crime in Mexico. It happens time and time again, why is that? It even happens when someone posting from inside of Mexico says something negative about the Mexican crime rate, someone jumps right back at the U.S. crime problem, why?
Most people here are posting from within the USA. The exceptions are axixic2, el_inombable (maybe - I don't know for sure now), maybe mexguy.
Often it's not what we see first hand because we live there but what is in the media and also what some just claim.
Statistics show that homicide rates in much of Mexico are very low, especially the poorer southern states. But also - if you were to be on the streets at night sitting in a park, wouldn't you prefer to be in Guadalajara or Puebla or even Mexico City rather than in Los Angeles or Chicago or Houston?
If I mentioned that many Mexicans had left the country out of fear for their lives, was only to show that there was a real concern. I'm also in no way advocating Mexicans to go to the U.S., take over the U.S. or become part of the U.S. Please don't compare me with your cohorts. That is for extremists with ideas like building a China wall with moats, alligators and electric wires. Nor am I comparing Mexico and the U.S. If you read the OP, you would realize, I am pro solutions. However, it is a process and in the meantime, it is what it is.
What is real, is that Mexican citizens are no longer conforming with the current status. Mexico is a great country. It has democracy. Its a middle class country. Mexicans are aware that Mexico is fast approaching to a first world country and politics are the number one concern. I don't believe that pacifying someone by telling them that everything is fine, is okay. These problems are real and are not to the level of the country that it is. Mexicans are not sitting down and waiting for change to occur on its own. They are actually doing something about it.
For starters, its in their right to address these issues.
Those leaving their country out of fear would choose some country like Ireland or Spain or Sweden but not the USA where the homicide rates are not really as low as people like to think - although homicide rates in the USA are much better than they once were, we are not one of the safest countries.
But people don't leave their country out of fear, just like people in the USA leaving Detroit or Los Angeles don't leave the country, they leave their dangerous city and seek out a safer city or neighborhood. Almost everywhere, crime is quite localized - in the USA the inner city might be quite bad yet out in the suburbs people leave their doors unlocked so one doesn't have to flee their entire country, they relocate to a safer neighborhood.
There are still plenty of people who have not even left Juarez, I know quite a few people who live there and they don't go out at night anymore, they don't even walk their own neighborhoods after dark, some have the option to leave and move in with relatives or rent a house in El Paso but are not afraid enough to do that because they say they have no reason to fear and while they have modified their lifestyles, they don't want to modify them so much by leaving home.
And people living in places like Guanajuato, Puebla, Oaxaca don't seem to be living in fear at all, no more fear anyhow than we in the USA live. In fact a number of people who decided to leave Juarez just went back to Veracruz where things are normal.
crime in Mexico is at its worst livel with FeCal(Calderon), that's why there are so many protests in cities like: Cd. Juarez, etc, and slogans like "no mas sangre"
many many mexicans live in fear... I guess the guys here saying that mexico is a paradise for security are the privileged ones...
If you go to some of the very poor colonias outside of Juarez, where people live in homes made from discarded pallets and cardboard, you can find people who are definely not privileged but are also not living in terror. In fact a number of them left the city to go to the poorer outskirts where the cartel war isn't going on and packs of gang thugs don't roam their streets at night.
If you get through Juarez and the military checkpoints to one of these communities, you would probably not sense a lot of reason to be fearful. It's really not the very poor that are involved in the violence like you think. In many cases the people with the really big money have the most reason to fear.
Drug lords moving to El Paso have not always found that to be the perfect solution for their safety problem as one was executed in broad daylight in an upper class El Paso neighborhood, another was taken from his home in broad daylight from a middle class neighborhood and showed up dead in Juarez.
Like mexguy pointed out, the cartel violence is targetted. Even after the drug lord was shot right on the street, no one else in El Paso started locking their doors at night because of it.
Most people here are posting from within the USA. The exceptions are axixic2, el_inombable (maybe - I don't know for sure now), maybe mexguy.
Statistics show that homicide rates in much of Mexico are very low, especially the poorer southern states. But also - if you were to be on the streets at night sitting in a park, wouldn't you prefer to be in Guadalajara or Puebla or even Mexico City rather than in Los Angeles or Chicago or Houston?
I would feel safer in Guadalajara at night and I stick out like a sore thumb. Although there are Mexicans who are tall and fair, most in this area aren't, but it's still much safer for noncriminals.
The violence, the murders, are targeted by drug gangs taking out other drug gangs. Kidnapping is becoming a problem and with some of us who aren't worth anything that is a concern, but kidnapping is a larger problem in Phoenix Arizona than here, so it's still safer here.
As Malamute wrote, if Mexicans feel unsafe why not move to other parts of Mexico instead of entering the U.S.? There are areas of Mexico that are safer than Plano Texas and they don't have to worry about ICE harassing them, being picked up and deported.
The kidnappings in PHX are targeted as well, it's coyote rip crews kidnapping human cargo from other coyotes. By the logic here, I guess that makes it ok? They are doing it to each other and not the general populous so it doesn't count.
As far as I'm concerned a kidnapping is a kidnapping is a kidnapping, just like a homicide is a homicide is a homicide. It doesn't matter who is doing it to who.
Quote:
Statistics show that homicide rates in much of Mexico are very low, especially the poorer southern states. But also - if you were to be on the streets at night sitting in a park, wouldn't you prefer to be in Guadalajara or Puebla or even Mexico City rather than in Los Angeles or Chicago or Houston?
I would take LA, Chicago or Houston, I'm more familiar with 'em and I know what the LE response would be if something were to happen.
Those leaving their country out of fear would choose some country like Ireland or Spain or Sweden but not the USA where the homicide rates are not really as low as people like to think - although homicide rates in the USA are much better than they once were, we are not one of the safest countries.
But people don't leave their country out of fear, just like people in the USA leaving Detroit or Los Angeles don't leave the country, they leave their dangerous city and seek out a safer city or neighborhood. Almost everywhere, crime is quite localized - in the USA the inner city might be quite bad yet out in the suburbs people leave their doors unlocked so one doesn't have to flee their entire country, they relocate to a safer neighborhood.
There are still plenty of people who have not even left Juarez, I know quite a few people who live there and they don't go out at night anymore, they don't even walk their own neighborhoods after dark, some have the option to leave and move in with relatives or rent a house in El Paso but are not afraid enough to do that because they say they have no reason to fear and while they have modified their lifestyles, they don't want to modify them so much by leaving home.
And people living in places like Guanajuato, Puebla, Oaxaca don't seem to be living in fear at all, no more fear anyhow than we in the USA live. In fact a number of people who decided to leave Juarez just went back to Veracruz where things are normal.
Re-read my post. I'm not advocating for Mexicans to go to the U.S. I never said it was a solution, that was your conclusion. I AM NOT COMPARING MEXICO and THE U.S.
Re-read my post. I'm not advocating for Mexicans to go to the U.S. I never said it was a solution, that was your conclusion. I AM NOT COMPARING MEXICO and THE U.S.
Okay - but there are some who will say that people are fleeing into the USA because they're afraid in Mexico.
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