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Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
11,334 posts, read 26,092,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southernsmoke
So Minnesota has five D1 hockey teams and ONE D1 football team (?). You live in Atlanta now--how many D1 football teams are in Georgia? Alabama? Tennessee? South Carolina? Florida? Texas?
Minnesota has one D1 football team. It really only has one very large college in the University of Minnesota, so that shouldn't be a surprise.
The reason it has five D1 hockey teams is because the talent pool in MN is disproportionately large. There's a reason why the United States Hockey Hall of Fame is in Eveleth, MN ... at one point in time there were only a few US players in the NHL, and a significant percentage ofthose players were from Minnesota. Heck, the Miracle on Ice US team from 1980 had 20 players, and 12 of them were from Minnesota.
As far as I know, Georgia, Tennessee, South Carolina, Florida, Louisiana, and Texas have precisely zero D1 hockey teams combined, and I think the state of Alabama only has one (Alabama-Huntsville). I can't speak for Tennessee. Does it have any?
Discounting TN, or maybe even including it, that's one D1 hockey team for an entire REGION of the US. That shows a hotbed of interest at that level, doesn't it?
You think that one team for an entire region indicates equivalent interest to one D1 football team for a single northern state with a small fraction of the population of the entire SE region? Heck, Georgia itself is almost twice as large as Minnesota populationwise all by itself, and it only has two teams (Georgia, Georgia Tech) on the U of Minn's level.
Remember the discussion is about hockey. There's really no question that just about every middle and high school in MN has a football team, so the grass roots culture is there. Is there a hockey culture anywhere in the south (except for places like Atlanta where northerners are so numerous they've brought it with them)?
FWIW, I never said I thought hockey shouldn't be played in the southern US. I personally wish there was a decent amount of high school and college hockey on TV here. But there isn't. Even Atlanta is largely a hockey wasteland.
Last edited by rcsteiner; 02-01-2011 at 02:41 PM..
There is an awful lot of hockey being played in Minnesota. 5 D-I hockey teams*, 11 D-III teams, a great many high school and amatuer teams. The Wild have a lot of competition. A hockey team in the south may be the only hockey team around.
*Aside from the University of Minnesota, the other D-I hockey schools are D-II schools that are allowed up play in D-I because there is no D-II championship. Comparison to football isn't valid, because you aren't allowed to play up a level in football.
Not only are there all these teams, MN is usually represented in the Frozen Four most years too (or at least the final 8).
There is an awful lot of hockey being played in Minnesota. 5 D-I hockey teams*, 11 D-III teams, a great many high school and amatuer teams. The Wild have a lot of competition. A hockey team in the south may be the only hockey team around.
Yeah, I understand this... which is probably part of the reason why nobody is going to want to bring a second NHL franchise to the Twin Cities, especially when the Wild have only mediocre fan support as it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumIguana
*Aside from the University of Minnesota, the other D-I hockey schools are D-II schools that are allowed up play in D-I because there is no D-II championship. Comparison to football isn't valid, because you aren't allowed to play up a level in football.
Don't understand why you apparently think it is important that Minnesota has 5 D1 hockey teams, but not important that those other states (e.g., Alabama) have several D1 football teams. Even if we combined D1 (including FCS) and D2 football--are you really going to put the U and UMD up against Bama and Auburn in football...? I mean, don't be silly. It's no secret that Minnesota has more (and better) college hockey than SEC-land, but it is also no secret that SEC-land (and not just the conference) has a lot more and better football.
Minnesota has one D1 football team. It really only has one very large college in the University of Minnesota, so that shouldn't be a surprise.
As far as I know, Georgia, Tennessee, South Carolina, Florida, Louisiana, and Texas have precisely zero D1 hockey teams combined, and I think the state of Alabama only has one (Alabama-Huntsville). I can't speak for Tennessee. Does it have any?
Discounting TN, or maybe even including it, that's one D1 hockey team for an entire REGION of the US.
You think that one team for an entire region indicates equivalent interest to one D1 football team for a single northern state with a small fraction of the population of the entire SE region? Heck, Georgia itself is almost twice as large as Minnesota populationwise all by itself.
Remember the discussion is about hockey. There's really no question that just about every middle and high school in MN has a football team, so the grass roots culture is there. Is there a hockey culture anywhere in the south (except for places like Atlanta where northerners are so numerous they've brought it with them)?
Yeah, no argument on the college hockey. Clearly the Midwest and Northeast dominate college hockey. And no doubt that the South does not have the same "hockey culture" as in Minnesota--obviously no frozen lakes in Atlanta. But while Minnesota kids are out skating, the Southern boys are out playing football. Obviously football has more national cache than hockey, so Minnesotans play football too, but you still seem dismissive of the quantitative and qualitative dominance of Southern schools in football.
Edit: We don't have to keep going on this topic--I was initially just standing up for NHL teams in less hockey-saturated states because I enjoy watching hockey, even if I didn't grow up playing all winter.
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
11,334 posts, read 26,092,084 times
Reputation: 3995
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernsmoke
Edit: We don't have to keep going on this topic--I was initially just standing up for NHL teams in less hockey-saturated states because I enjoy watching hockey, even if I didn't grow up playing all winter.
I'm with you on that. I love watching hockey, although I've not gone to an NHL game since the North Stars left the Twin Cities (Norm still sucks!) ... and won't. But seeing college hockey and high school hockey is still a thrill, at least when the teams are well coached and there's a decent level of talent.
Don't understand why you apparently think it is important that Minnesota has 5 D1 hockey teams, but not important that those other states (e.g., Alabama) have several D1 football teams. Even if we combined D1 (including FCS) and D2 football--are you really going to put the U and UMD up against Bama and Auburn in football...? I mean, don't be silly. It's no secret that Minnesota has more (and better) college hockey than SEC-land, but it is also no secret that SEC-land (and not just the conference) has a lot more and better football.
Minnesota has only 1 D-I football team, not because football isn't big here, but because of how the universities are structured. Rather than having a few medium sized universities, the University of Minnesota is one of the largest in the country (#4 in the country, according to Wikipedia), with the other public universities being smaller. There is an awful lot of football played in Minnesota. In addition to the University of Minnesota, there are 9 D-II football teams, 16 D-III teams, and 12 Junior college teams. Most high schools have teams. And given that football's origins are in the north - the first intercollegiate game was between Rutgers and Princeton - football isn't any more a stranger to Minnesota than it is to Alabama. And two northern teams are playing in the Super Bowl.
Could Minnesota beat Alabama? Not this year, but Minnesota did beat Alabama 20-16, the last time they played them in 2004. But that's not important. I'm not against hockey teams in the south, but it is a bit unusual to have a professional sport in an area where that sport is for the most part not otherwise played at all.
Last edited by QuantumIguana; 02-01-2011 at 03:40 PM..
Minnesota has only 1 D-I football team, not because football isn't big here, but because of how the universities are structured. Rather than having a few medium sized universities, the University of Minnesota is one of the largest in the country (#4 in the country, according to Wikipedia), with the other public universities being smaller. There is an awful lot of football played in Minnesota. In addition to the University of Minnesota, there are 9 D-II football teams, 16 D-III teams, and 12 Junior college teams. Most high schools have teams. And given that football's origins are in the north - the first intercollegiate game was between Rutgers and Princeton - football isn't any more a stranger to Minnesota than it is to Alabama. And two northern teams are playing in the Super Bowl.
Could Minnesota beat Alabama? Not this year, but Minnesota did beat Alabama 20-16, the last time they played them in 2004. But that's not important. I'm not against hockey teams in the south, but it is a bit unusual to have a professional sport in an area where that sport is for the most part not otherwise played at all.
Including the DII national champs, UMD with their 15-0 season.
Minnesota has only 1 D-I football team, not because football isn't big here, but because of how the universities are structured. Rather than having a few medium sized universities, the University of Minnesota is one of the largest in the country (#4 in the country, according to Wikipedia), with the other public universities being smaller. There is an awful lot of football played in Minnesota. In addition to the University of Minnesota, there are 9 D-II football teams, 16 D-III teams, and 12 Junior college teams. Most high schools have teams. And given that football's origins are in the north - the first intercollegiate game was between Rutgers and Princeton - football isn't any more a stranger to Minnesota than it is to Alabama. And two northern teams are playing in the Super Bowl.
Could Minnesota beat Alabama? Not this year, but Minnesota did beat Alabama 20-16, the last time they played them in 2004. But that's not important. I'm not against hockey teams in the south, but it is a bit unusual to have a professional sport in an area where that sport is for the most part not otherwise played at all.
+1 exactly.
Just like MLS and 'soccer' has struggled in the 'States'. It's just not played here from an early age. How can a million people in a European city go nuts over a football game and MLS continues to be a B-Grade Professional sport, a few notches under NASCAR and a few above Bowling.
That's what the Sun Belt is doing to Hockey. Taking away the NHL's credibility.
Probably but I figured we were talking about MN compared to other states in the US.
You could do a "fantasy league" MN team for comparison to the rest of the league.
I'm somewhat ashamed to admit that I have actually broken down NHL rosters by state & province. I think this would be an fantastic idea for a real tournament.
With the All-Minnesota team, you're basically getting a team that is LOADED on defense, has some firepower at forward (promising youngsters, veteran depth is a little thin), and lacking an NHL-calibre starting goalie (last I checked).
With that said, they should be able to able to compete with and beat Michigan, Massachusetts, or New York for the State of Hockey title. WI, ND, CO, CA, AK, TX, IL, IN, OH, PA, NJ, CT, RI, NH, VT, RI, ME wouldn't be a contest.
Just make sure that you don't let the provinces in. Whereas Minnesota would pass for an NHL team, All-Ontario or All-British Columbia wouldn't look much different from an All-Star roster.
Last edited by wherespankakehouse?; 02-01-2011 at 08:21 PM..
Both the NHL and NBA are declining in popularity all over the country. I wouldn't be surprised if the Wolves left within the next decade. I suppose there are many reasons. A lack of superstars to enthrall the country like back in the Jordan days. Increased popularity of the NFL over the past 10 years. And just a whole lot of other entertainment options competing for people's attention. When few people had cable, sure, switch on over to the Wolves game. That doesn't happen anymore.
But yeah, what bring hockey fans is living in a place where hockey is played in the schools. Hockey is a huge sport at the high school level, which gets all sorts of people interested in the sport, which can carry over to interest in the professional teams. In southern states where football is king, there is not that same following.
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