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Old 08-30-2011, 04:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkmb View Post
Just where would I find this mythical black middle class? I think the difference is that I am wondering where in Minnesota a significant black middle class exists not where there are a few more blacks households indicated in the census results.

BTW some of the so-called growing suburbs display some of the deepest and most blatant racism. Burnsville is deeply divided between the old white guard and the influx of new blacks and Hispanics.

This is true of other "fast growing" SOTR suburbs. People move there because there is more space and generally cheaper housing, but like almost every other group that has ever escaped to suburbia they feel lost in the vacuum of nothingness that defines suburbia. There is no black middle class there. There is nothing there. But indeed people, of various ethnicities, do live there.
Burnsville isn't a fast growing suburb. The population grew by 0.1% from 2000 to 2010. Try Blaine or Woodbury or Maple Grove or Lakeville. They all grew by at least 20%. I am pretty familiar with parts of Blaine. In Blaine it's not at all unusual to see black families in the newer developments. These tend to be the nicer/newer parts. The trailer parks are overwhelmingly white.

If you want data from the 2010 census, % of blacks that live in a house that their family owns: Blaine (74%), Lakeville (68%), Maple Grove (44%), Woodbury (64%), Minneapolis (23%). Not a perfect indicator (of middle class (or maybe not even all that great), but it's the best statistic I can find data for.
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Old 08-30-2011, 05:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StanleyVegas View Post
Agreed. Coming from southern California, we seriously considered Portland before moving to the Twin Cities. They do have some similarities (livable, progressive, nice older neighborhoods, bike friendly etc.), but we got that weird feeling of smugness from Portland that UU mentioned. Even though we are a lot farther from family we like it here (even in winter).

Maybe it's our non-ironic penchant for meat raffles that keeps us real.

Last edited by mkmb; 08-30-2011 at 05:58 PM..
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Old 08-30-2011, 05:50 PM
 
114 posts, read 180,295 times
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Originally Posted by northsub View Post
Burnsville isn't a fast growing suburb. The population grew by 0.1% from 2000 to 2010. Try Blaine or Woodbury or Maple Grove or Lakeville. They all grew by at least 20%. I am pretty familiar with parts of Blaine. In Blaine it's not at all unusual to see black families in the newer developments. These tend to be the nicer/newer parts. The trailer parks are overwhelmingly white.

If you want data from the 2010 census, % of blacks that live in a house that their family owns: Blaine (74%), Lakeville (68%), Maple Grove (44%), Woodbury (64%), Minneapolis (23%). Not a perfect indicator (of middle class (or maybe not even all that great), but it's the best statistic I can find data for.
You're looking at the wrong data. To prove the existence of black middle class in suburbia, as opposed to a few middle class blacks in suburbia, you have to look at the percentage of the population that is black and middle class and lives in suburbia. I defy you to list one tc suburb where middle class black population is equal to or more than the percentage of blacks in MN. BTW, blacks represent 5.2% of Minnesotans and 12.6% of the total US population per the 2010 census.

Your data suggests the income of the blacks living in these suburban areas is high enough to afford a house but it doesn't say anything about the aggregate numbers of blacks living in such communities or more importantly the percentage of blacks living in such areas.
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Old 08-30-2011, 07:08 PM
 
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I agree that the black middle/upper class is smaller in the Twin Cities than in many other metro areas, but also agree with MplsTodd that much of that is due to historic reasons and immigration patterns. I'm sure the numbers would also go up if we had a HBCU. Small black professional class does not equate to non-existent, however.

And I hesitate to throw this out there, as I think tokenism CAN be an irritating aspect of life in Minneapolis (a la "look at us white Minnesotans! See -- we're NOT racist! We voted for Keith Ellison and Barack Obama!"), but for what it's worth, we had a black female mayor for much of the '90s (and also a black female school superintendent, for that matter); while that certainly doesn't "prove" that Minneapolis is not racist (if that's what some are suggesting), it does suggest that, despite being a majority-white city, the majority of our residents don't vote along racial lines. And more recently, the same could probably be said about Keith Ellison; the majority of the 5th district is not black or Muslim (he's the first Muslim elected to US Congress). And Ellison by most accounts certainly does count as "liberal," even if he is not THE most liberal person in Congress. (I believe he came in at #14 in the country on one of the "liberal" ranking scores last year.) Although once you get into politics things start getting really weird around here, given that Minnesota as a whole is both home to some of the most politically liberal politicians in the country, as well as some of the most conservative. On the plus side, I guess that means for those relocating to the Twin Cities who prefer to live in either a liberal or a conservative community, they'll be able to find somewhere that fits the bill! (plus, in general, I think most Minnesotans are fairly polite, and people of all political persuasions can happily coexist and remain friendly, even if they are on opposite sides of the political spectrum.)
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Old 08-30-2011, 09:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorielicious View Post
I'm sorry -- what was that? I just dropped my monocle into my mug of fair-trade coffee and got distracted a bit.
Excuse me for abruptly butting into this spirited conversation. But I'm in the same boat as the OP. I'm in the south as well and despise it. I'm a 32 y/o black male that plans on escaping the hellhole which is Memphis, TN. This is the worst city in the union, IMO. Even the "educated" blacks are unevolved, xenophobic, insular, hypocrites with shifty characteristics. And they always talk about church and Jesus but never practice what they preach. It's like they have no conscious. Not to mention it's one of the most violent cities in America. Low literacy rate, high infant mortality rate, you name it!!

To Lorielicious, are you one of those types who constantly updates her social media profiles and believes in flaunting material possession? You know, has to have the latest fashions and considers herself a "young black professional"? I don't want to make any assumptions. That's why I'm asking. You may be totally opposite of that. But that's the type of pretentiousness I'm trying to distance myself from. Those are what I consider wannabees. That could be why you consider Minneapolis hokey. It may not fit into what you consider a real big city.

Someone mentioned being from Atlanta. That was my first choice for years. But that place has changed drastically. The black population seems quite vain. They flaunt material possessions like there's no tomorrow. It's annoying as hell to me. Makes the city seem tainted. And the gay population is too aggressive and pushy to me. I believe in live and let live but I don't appreciate super horny gay males constantly making passes at me. I AM from Memphis. Sorry, we don't play that here.
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Old 08-30-2011, 09:47 PM
 
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Oh yeah! I'm totally into dating white women. Especially redheads. Not a Vikings or Timberwolves fan though.
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Old 08-30-2011, 10:32 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
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Child, puhlease. I've never even been on the Twitter, not even once, do not update my Facebook status every time I buy an expensive handbag, and am somewhat irritated (okay -- VERY irritated) when people I grew up declare themselves as having made it because they have a pile of worthless sh*t. I don't consider that kind of flossing attitude to be "big city." I consider that attitude to be the trademark of someone who lacks perspective, and is not specific to town size. My perception of Mpls being "hokey" has absolutely zilch to do with that.

Anyway, I would humbly suggest that you reconsider any notion you have of material possession/fascination being inherent to certain types of people in certain places. Your statement about black people in Atl being hyper-materialistic makes me cringe. Everyone (it seems to me, at least) seems to judge people they consider to be like them the most harshly, and often unfairly so. Materialism and braggadocio are surely NOT exclusive to the black upper class. Are you going to tell me the white upper class is filled to the brim with the humble, un-materialistic and meek? To say so would silly. Of course there is a contingent of highly-irritating black people who want to assault you nonstop with how big their SUV is, but they are not alone. They're just people like everyone else: flawed. This same contingent exists on all color lines, you just seem to be bothered by one in particular, perhaps because you notice them more.

But we're not even talking about Minneapolis anymore, are we? Minneapolis is okay, is my final assessment, but let's be honest about its strengths and its weaknesses.

All the best,
Lorie
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Old 08-31-2011, 02:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkmb View Post
You're looking at the wrong data. To prove the existence of black middle class in suburbia, as opposed to a few middle class blacks in suburbia, you have to look at the percentage of the population that is black and middle class and lives in suburbia. I defy you to list one tc suburb where middle class black population is equal to or more than the percentage of blacks in MN. BTW, blacks represent 5.2% of Minnesotans and 12.6% of the total US population per the 2010 census.

Your data suggests the income of the blacks living in these suburban areas is high enough to afford a house but it doesn't say anything about the aggregate numbers of blacks living in such communities or more importantly the percentage of blacks living in such areas.
Brooklyn Park would qualify. But, ...

That seems like a pretty weird statistic to look at. If we define "middle class" as owning a home (which is dubious, but I don't know what other statistic to use), then neither Atlanta nor Chicago qualifies. By such a measurement none of Blaine, Lakeville, Maple Grove, or Woodbury have a white middle class. I'd bet very few (maybe none?) Twin Cities suburbs would.

The point is that if you live in many of the faster growing suburbs, then it's pretty easy to get the impression that black families tend to live in single family homes that are in some of the nicer parts of towns. The idea that "all blacks are from the ghetto" would be easily disproven by just walking around such a neighborhood.
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:41 PM
 
Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
5,530 posts, read 11,248,227 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorielicious View Post
Some people here seem to think that Minneapolis is Berkeley, CA. Please.

I'm also a 28 year old liberal, single black person. I moved to Mpls in 2007 from Los Angeles, then left earlier this year. There are not a lot of transplants in Mpls. You will find it's very true that most people were born and raised there, with a lot of the younger people having come from the suburbs, seeing the move to Mpls the city as a step up. If you say you're from somewhere else, you're met with intrigue and fascination. I'm serious, people would firebomb me with endless questions about where I was from and ask me what possessed me to move there. Here in Chicago, and back in LA, being from somewhere else didn't make you akin to a space alien.

Even people in Minneapolis the city are passive-aggressive in a very stereoptypical Minnesota way. In fact, it was the first thing I noticed. When people would ask me about my impressions of MN, my immediate responses were a) everyone is this creepy passive-aggressive that tests my patience, b) everyone drives too slow, c) everyone speaks s l o w l y.... though being from the South, you may not mind. When I got there, though, almost everyone told me I spoke too fast. I really don't, but at about 3x the speed of the average Minnesotan. I lived and worked downtown, most of my friends were in NE and Uptown, so it's not like I'm basing this on my experiences in Chanhassen.

Also, this description of Mpls as this bastion of liberalness and acceptance seems pretty far fetched. I have honestly never --not even once-- experienced flat-out, unmasked, to-your-face racism in my entire life until I got to MN, where people have made unequivocally racist statements right to my face. This happened three times in the time I lived there. No, it's not Stone Mountain, GA, but it ain't Shangri-La. I'm admittedly stereotyping the South here, but I'm guessing blunt racism won't be as big of a shock to you, and it might even be a vast improvement from Atlanta. Massive, 100-mile drop from So Cal.

I don't know how young people get married in Atlanta, but I recall being distinctly being taken aback by how common it was for very young people (early to mid twenties) to be married. Still, there are enough single people that you're not going to feel like whatever the male version of a spinster is. Dating scene in Mpls is okay.

Still, overall, it's just very... Midwestern in every way. Maybe my perceptions are skewed way off because I'm a big city girl, but moving to Mpls was a massive culture shock. It felt very much like Mayberry, but with a skyway.

Oh, and if you like spicy food, don't move to Mpls. That's where flavor goes to die an undignified white-bread death. You've been warned.


Sorry to be the Bad News Bears, but I felt like a lot of this information was presented by MN die hards, and give a misleading fanboi account of what Minneapolis is like.
Maybe you experienced hatred because you bring it out in people? Just a thought.

BTW, having lots of family in Chicago I can tell you that if you are not from Chicago you may as well be a space alien, because you'll never hear the end of why where you live is not as great as Chicago. Maybe you don't understand this because you moved to where all the transplants live, but the Chicagoans I know will be quick to point out that you are an outsider and tell you why you suck. Maybe not at Rush & Division, the Miracle Mile, or the Gold Coast I guess....

Last edited by west336; 08-31-2011 at 10:50 PM..
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Old 09-01-2011, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
928 posts, read 1,620,070 times
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Ha ha. A bit touchy when someone criticizes your town? I made great friends in MN, but I also encountered a lot of backwaterness, and I'm not alone. I'm not sure where in Chicago you think I live, but I'm not at Rush/Division. No one's ever preached to me about how much better Chicago is than where I'm from. Typical responses when I tell people I'm from elsewhere is "Welcome" or "How do you like Chicago?" I don't know what kind of a-holes your family is, but nobody I know out here does that.
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