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^Little Dixie is basically the counties along the Missouri River valley, those which were originally settled (naturally) along the river after the state entered the Union as a slave state. It stretches clear across the state and includes the counties that comprise the modern day Kansas City area (Missouri side, obviously), all of the counties along the river in the central part of the state, and a few tiers of counties north of the Missouri River in the eastern part of the state. The area along the river just west of St. Louis was already settled by Germans, who established many vineyards and wineries, and was known as Missouri Rhineland. That area and the Germans didn't have much to do with the plantation and slave culture that existed in most of the rest of the state. The Southerners who settled Little Dixie established plantations, which of course were worked by slaves. I believe the hemp and tobacco were primarily what was grown. What is now inner city Kansas City was once covered in slave plantations and had a large slave population. Interestingly there was a sizeable plantation in the vicinity of the epicenter of Kansas City's ghetto. Also interesting is that Little Dixie, where most of Missouri's slaves and plantations were, is within the northern half of the state. Here are some websites I found:
Same old argument. Lived in Missouri most my life always considered myself Southern. If you want to go by ancestors mine brought their slaves from Kentucky to Central Missouri Prairie Home area, where over time they were freed and kept our Family Name. Many fought for the Confederacy.
Not going to waste my time I'll always believe the way I do and anyone wanting to try and change this is wasting their time.
Same old argument. Lived in Missouri most my life always considered myself Southern. If you want to go by ancestors mine brought their slaves from Kentucky to Central Missouri Prairie Home area, where over time they were freed and kept our Family Name. Many fought for the Confederacy.
Not going to waste my time I'll always believe the way I do and anyone wanting to try and change this is wasting their time.
brushrunner
Consider yourself Southern then but Central Missouri is not the South neither is most of Missouri. You're just a Southern Midwesterner with Southern ancestors. Using pre Civil War history to classify what Missouri is today is a weak argument. Go join the Neosho meeting and secede with Jackson and Price like the minority of Missourians did because we aren't a part of the south.
Southern Indiana, I would conclude, is part of the upper south and I would dare to say that any folks in rural southern Indiana that speak with a bit of an accent are most definately hoosiers and nor Kyians....many folks in southern Ind have bit of twang in their speech.
Northern Kentucky feels maybe a bit more midwestern because of having been invaded by alot of Ohioans and folks from Cinnci. Back not too long ago that area was more southern without a doubt so get out of the Covington or Newport Ky city limits and it feels decidedly more southern and Kentuckian to me.
On the topic of Missouri: I would say that south of the Missouri river is a transition zone until you get down to around Rolla and Lebanon. Beyond that point its definately the south. However, isnt there an area just east of KC that some folks refer to as "Little Dixie" due to its ties with the southern immigrants who settled that area? To me MO is not a completely midwestern state, nor obviously southern, but I'd say it's split in 2 actually, with southern MO being in the upper part of the south and northern MO being in the lower midwest.
However, I cant tell much difference between traditional lower midwest culture and traditional southern culture, unless your talking the deep south, which IS considerably different.
There is considerable difference. St. Louis and Cincinnati have a much different culture than Louisville and Lexington. The Missouri River is not the border between North and South. Jefferson City St. Louis and Kansas City are solidly Midwestern. The transition zone starts below these cities. You aren't in the actual South until you reach Springfield and Sikeston. Stick to Kentucky. The Southern half of Missouri is part Southern part transition. Overall the state is more Midwestern than it is Southern. Little Dixie is not Southern from a modern standpoint hasn't been for a long time.
There is considerable difference. St. Louis and Cincinnati have a much different culture than Louisville and Lexington. The Missouri River is not the border between North and South. Jefferson City St. Louis and Kansas City are solidly Midwestern. The transition zone starts below these cities. You aren't in the actual South until you reach Springfield and Sikeston. Stick to Kentucky. The Southern half of Missouri is part Southern part transition. Overall the state is more Midwestern than it is Southern. Little Dixie is not Southern from a modern standpoint hasn't been for a long time.
Hey I didn't say The Missouri River was the border between the north and south. What I was implying is I believe that the transition zone starts generally in that area and gradually becomes heavier until you get down around Lebanon and Rolla. Years ago when I was in that area, I think it kind of reminded me a little bit of southern Ill and Ind a little bit in places.
Even so, it's kind of hard to define the border between the north and south in Missouri. Some might put it a little further north, some a bit further south. And, you know their could be supportive arguments for both sides. I guess this is just the uniqueness of a border state. In my opinion, of all the border region states, Missouri is "most" unique.
But Missouri is a BIG state, it has alot more territory so it kinda reaches into a few different areas.
I'd say officially, talking Kentucky, ( which is where my family is all from ) the south has it's northern perifery at the Ohio river, so it forms a natural boundary. Yet, across the river in southern Indiana, you still detect a southern influence until you get up around Columbus Indiana, where it fades out for good.
But, to be honest, there is very little difference between the culture of the upland south and the lower midwest, at least from a traditional standpoint in my opinion. It's kinda hard to tell which has been more influenced by the other.
here's my map that I like to show on other threads because I just love these "controversial geographical and cultural threads" Anyways in this map I show where "I believe" the upper south begins and then also meets the "deep south"
Hey I didn't say The Missouri River was the border between the north and south. What I was implying is I believe that the transition zone starts generally in that area and gradually becomes heavier until you get down around Lebanon and Rolla. Years ago when I was in that area, I think it kind of reminded me a little bit of southern Ill and Ind a little bit in places.
Even so, it's kind of hard to define the border between the north and south in Missouri. Some might put it a little further north, some a bit further south. And, you know their could be supportive arguments for both sides. I guess this is just the uniqueness of a border state. In my opinion, of all the border region states, Missouri is "most" unique.
But Missouri is a BIG state, it has alot more territory so it kinda reaches into a few different areas.
I'd say officially, talking Kentucky, ( which is where my family is all from ) the south has it's northern perifery at the Ohio river, so it forms a natural boundary. Yet, across the river in southern Indiana, you still detect a southern influence until you get up around Columbus Indiana, where it fades out for good.
But, to be honest, there is very little difference between the culture of the upland south and the lower midwest, at least from a traditional standpoint in my opinion. It's kinda hard to tell which has been more influenced by the other.
here's my map that I like to show on other threads because I just love these "controversial geographical and cultural threads" Anyways in this map I show where "I believe" the upper south begins and then also meets the "deep south"
Most on here agree US 50 in MO is the dividing line between the Midwest and transition zone. In western MO outside of KC there are still some southern hints left but it's mostly midwestern.
The invisible Dixie line generally runs from cape girardeau to literally right through springfield and drops south of Joplin. Brad Pitt also says the Mason Dixon Line literally runs right thru Springfield. In central MO
So basically from US 50 on southwards is a transition zone. A mix like Southern Indiana and Southern IL. Naturally more southern the further south you get. Then when you're get to about 10 or so miles north of highway 60 on southwards essentially IS the south where southern dialect and culture dominates.
Except near the Mississippi River the transition is VERY sharp and goes from Midwest to Southern pretty quickly with little transition zone in Cape county. Northern Cape county is pretty Midwestern compared to the Southern half of Cape Girardeau County which has more southern influence when you get around Jackson for example as THBgunner will tell you.
A good drive to see a GRADUAL transition is to head southwest on highway 44 out of St. Louis. When you leave St. Louis county you gradually start the transition from the midwest to south. When you get closer to Rolla it really starts picking up more southern influence and then when you get just south of Springfield city limits you're basically in the South.
Just about everyone on here agrees Missouri is a midwestern state overall on here, but the entire state is not midwest. We all pretty much have came to agreement on here Missouri is 50 percent pure midwestern, 25 percent a transition mix zone like Southern Indiana, Southern IL and about 25 percent Dixie/Southern which is the southern quarter of the state. Out of all the Midwestern states Missouri is the most southern influenced, and southernmost Midwestern state due to culturally and geographical location and historically. IL and IN still don't come close. MO was a slave state, nearly went Confederate, has the largest Southern Baptist population out of all the other midwest states, warmest climate, bootheel, and linguistics wise the southern dialect line covers much more of the state than it does in IL and IN where it barely covers any of it. and unlike IN and IL it has parts of the state that are purely southern. The only part of IL IMO that is truely southern is around Cairo and Metropolis. The rest of it is just transition.
Also politics wise MO has southern influence in it as well like when it comes to abortion and gun laws. Our gun laws are more like TN and KY compared to NE, IL and IA which are more restrictive. In fact Missouri now has some of the weakest gun laws in the nation which is quite nice to have and enjoy Especially with 19 year olds getting ccw permits now and amendment 5 passing which I hope leads to constitution carry in MO one day.
The political power in the state house and senate seems in the last 10-15 years has been shifting to the southern and SW portion of the state which are Republican strongholds now and have more influence now hence why the agenda is more to the right in Jefferson City like guns taxes and abortion like other southern states vs KC and Stl holding more power in the past and having more northern influence.
Cities in the transition zone IMO are Rolla, Joplin, Lake of the Ozarks, Farmington, Jackson, Bonne Terre Nevada, Lebanon, Ironton. With places like Lebanon of course having much more southern influence than Farmington or Lake of the Ozarks of course that just have a bit of it.
Cape Girardeau and Springfield are literally right on top of the dividing line. West Plains, Branson, Cabool, Sikeston, Kennett, Charleston, Caruthersville, Poplar Bluff are southern cities in Missouri just to name a few.
So overall the argument over Missouri will never end. It's been like that since the Civil War. Hence why the state always seemed confused politically and it is still is today to an extent.
Overall Missouri is solid 50 percent pure Midwestern, 25 percent transition and 25 percent Dixie. You could call it 75 percent Midwestern and transition and 25 percent Southern. Overall makes it a midwestern state but makes it stand out from all the other midwestern states as part of the state is part of the South.
here is a map I made once. I admit I was sloppy around Springfield and the Southern Line should basically be going through it not just north of the city.
Hey I didn't say The Missouri River was the border between the north and south. What I was implying is I believe that the transition zone starts generally in that area and gradually becomes heavier until you get down around Lebanon and Rolla. Years ago when I was in that area, I think it kind of reminded me a little bit of southern Ill and Ind a little bit in places.
Even so, it's kind of hard to define the border between the north and south in Missouri. Some might put it a little further north, some a bit further south. And, you know their could be supportive arguments for both sides. I guess this is just the uniqueness of a border state. In my opinion, of all the border region states, Missouri is "most" unique.
But Missouri is a BIG state, it has alot more territory so it kinda reaches into a few different areas.
I'd say officially, talking Kentucky, ( which is where my family is all from ) the south has it's northern perifery at the Ohio river, so it forms a natural boundary. Yet, across the river in southern Indiana, you still detect a southern influence until you get up around Columbus Indiana, where it fades out for good.
But, to be honest, there is very little difference between the culture of the upland south and the lower midwest, at least from a traditional standpoint in my opinion. It's kinda hard to tell which has been more influenced by the other.
here's my map that I like to show on other threads because I just love these "controversial geographical and cultural threads" Anyways in this map I show where "I believe" the upper south begins and then also meets the "deep south"
After reading a thread about St. Joseph, MO, I had this thought: How would Missouri's cities be rated in reverse of what this thread is asking, meaning the most Midwestern. I had that thought because St. Joseph strikes me as very Midwestern. It's a town that was predominantly blue collar, with historic neighborhoods that were centered around factories. From what I can tell, these neighborhoods had (and probably still have) a very strong sense of community. St. Joseph is almost like a museum of the past since it peaked in population in 1900 and hasn't seen much development or change and hasn't had a major influx of outsiders. I'm pretty sure industry was still very strong there as recently as the 1970's and even into the 1990's. There's still not much there besides the little bit of industry that remains. While I've never been to the true Rust Belt or further east into the hardcore industrial Midwest, I'm thinking St. Joseph is a little slice of the Rust Belt far west and can imagine it being a glimpse into what Rust Belt town look like.
After reading a thread about St. Joseph, MO, I had this thought: How would Missouri's cities be rated in reverse of what this thread is asking, meaning the most Midwestern. I had that thought because St. Joseph strikes me as very Midwestern. It's a town that was predominantly blue collar, with historic neighborhoods that were centered around factories. From what I can tell, these neighborhoods had (and probably still have) a very strong sense of community. St. Joseph is almost like a museum of the past since it peaked in population in 1900 and hasn't seen much development or change and hasn't had a major influx of outsiders. I'm pretty sure industry was still very strong there as recently as the 1970's and even into the 1990's. There's still not much there besides the little bit of industry that remains. While I've never been to the true Rust Belt or further east into the hardcore industrial Midwest, I'm thinking St. Joseph is a little slice of the Rust Belt far west and can imagine it being a glimpse into what Rust Belt town look like.
There are towns in northern MO much more midwestern than St. Joseph such as Kirksville.
Last edited by bigbluestl; 11-18-2014 at 09:00 PM..
There are towns in northern MO much more midwestern than St. Joseph.
Which towns are those, and why?
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