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It matters because they have kids and those kids go to our schools. We pay for their education. In places where there are a lot of illegals, we pay for extra teachers and extra classrooms that take money away from Americans and immigrants who came legally. For the illegals who can't speak English, they have to hire special teachers so there goes more of our tax money.
It matters because they're using roads that we paid for, housing that we could be living in--although, since they are illegal, they usually don't make much money, so they create ghettos of illegals, places that no one would want to live. A legal immigrant has the right to work and to get a good job and live in a better area as soon as they can afford to.
It matters because our taxes are paying for police and fire fighters that they use. It matters because illegals don't usually have health insurance because they work under the table. So in these days of COVID, they're spreading it.
It matters because in some areas they are taking jobs that Americans used to do, such as landscaping and roofing. Not every American is educated and some would like to do those jobs. Some landscapers have been put out of business by illegals who do the work on the cheap. Same thing with house cleaners who are illegal and undercut an American who is unskilled and would like to have a house cleaning job.
Probably the only time we can use illegals is for picking crops. In that case, we should return to the visa program where they come, pick the crops, take their earnings and go home. That's a win-win because with their money they can soon build a house in their home country. They can improve the situation in their home country so they wouldn't have to come here.
It also matters because we have no idea who these people are. That's one of the benefits of legal immigration: they must produce a birth certificate, get a background check, pass an interview, and submit a lot of paperwork to prove that they are eligible to live here. I don't know of any other country that just allows people to walk in and stay, using the country's resources for free and not even being decent enough to identify themselves and pass the entry exam. Can we just walk into Canada? Or England? No, because other countries know better and they would deport us. We have national boundaries just like other countries and it's disrespectful and takes a sense of entitlement to ignore them.
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Originally Posted by in_newengland
That's a symptom of how messed up this country is right now. Hopefully, after the next election, things will improve in that regard. I certainly support government spending when it's on things that benefit the majority of Americans. When you're a citizen of a country, you are one part of a large group that pulls together, contributes to the general welfare of all, and shares a belief that, together, we can make this country better than ever. Part of that responsibility is carried out by our tax money.
Our tax money, our efforts toward making this a better country, should go to Americans and anyone else who has a right to be here, not to sneaky law breakers.
As for landscapers, the average person didn't need one years ago and they don't need one now. A person can mow their own lawn and if they are unable to, they can hire a kid or even someone from a company to do it for them. No one used to hire professional landscapers to design their back yard. They can learn to do it themselves instead of paying someone or they can leave it as is. I think of landscapers (ones who are necessary) as businesses that design and construct landscape projects for commercial buildings, for apartment complexes and so on. Those places can afford to pay an honest landscaping company.
Americans got along fine before they had their own landscapers. We don't need illegals to do that. It undercuts the legal, honest landscaping companies and puts them out of business--there are many examples of that. In particular parts of the country, all landscaping seems to be done by illegals so no American can be a landscaper. In other areas, the American owners of landscaping companies that employ Americans, fear for their livelihood due to the illegals who will do the same job for peanuts. It's unfair and it's just not right.
I only wish more people thought like you, in_newengland. When I had no job, I would spend all day arguing with hardcore Leftists on here and there is no winning that game. Now I work.. and I am not an illegal.
You can lead the horse to water, but you can't make them drink.
I just want the buffets to open, this Con virus is getting out of hand. Never thought a buffet would be a luxury. And guess what, those illegal landscapers are taking jobs away from .. oh nevermind, I just laugh at some of the stuff I see on here, I wish I could give some of these people a hug and maybe get them a coffee they make me laugh so hard I actually thank them.
Hopefully, after the next election, things will improve in that regard.
you think jo jorgenson is going to win? im not aware that either the democrat or republican parties have any intentions in reducing government spending or spend our tax dollars more wisely.
im also not sure why i should care more about a person because they happen to be born on the same piece of dirt as me (under the same umbrella of a "nation" that has deemed itself my ruler). the only way it would matter, i suppose, is that we are in a system together and our mutual support benefits all of us because of that. otherwise an "american" isnt someone i deem any more entitled to my support as a mexican, iranian, chinese, german, etc. etc. person.
you think jo jorgenson is going to win? im not aware that either the democrat or republican parties have any intentions in reducing government spending or spend our tax dollars more wisely.
im also not sure why i should care more about a person because they happen to be born on the same piece of dirt as me (under the same umbrella of a "nation" that has deemed itself my ruler). the only way it would matter, i suppose, is that we are in a system together and our mutual support benefits all of us because of that. otherwise an "american" isnt someone i deem any more entitled to my support as a mexican, iranian, chinese, german, etc. etc. person.
We need to get back to the Martin Luther King Jr. "We judge people based not on the color of their skin, but on the content of their character." Minor insert: The BLM horse stuff is wholly AGAINST this, and really an abomination of pretty much everything, including being run by "white people." Sorry, but it is. Me, everyone thinks I am white but I am really not. I welcome diversity. It sure would be nice if we could all work and contribute together for a great society, if that is what I am hearing you say we should do.
We aren't going to get it from whatever power structure we have now.. Arguing with radical anonymous people on the Internet is fun (and sure, let's just call each other "Trolls").. give me New Hampshire: "Live Free or Die."
you think jo jorgenson is going to win? im not aware that either the democrat or republican parties have any intentions in reducing government spending or spend our tax dollars more wisely.
im also not sure why i should care more about a person because they happen to be born on the same piece of dirt as me (under the same umbrella of a "nation" that has deemed itself my ruler). the only way it would matter, i suppose, is that we are in a system together and our mutual support benefits all of us because of that. otherwise an "american" isnt someone i deem any more entitled to my support as a mexican, iranian, chinese, german, etc. etc. person.
If you know the answer already, then what is the confusion about? If the people around me are doing well, then they can afford decent insurance, copays, deductibles, etc. You know, like back in the 70's and 80s, before all this globalization and exporting our wealth really took off. Before our poor and unskilled had to compete with 3rd world poor and unskilled who were willing to work for a dollar a day. If the people around you are doing well, then they can afford to pay for whatever it is you are selling.
Then there is the form of government. We had this discussion last week, so I don't want to rehash the whole thing, but I generally like what our government stands for. I mean in an idealistic sort of way. I know it is not perfect, and it often strays from the ideal, but at least it has that ideal to strive for. Since I don't agree with you that we have magic natural rights that come from the sky God or the natural rights fairy, it means our rights come from our government. Without government enforcement of our rights, it is the law of the jungle out there. In order to keep these rights that I believe in and love, I need our country to be strong enough to deter other countries who may not believe in these rights.
So no, an American is not more deserving than a Mexican or Iranian. I never argued that he was more deserving of my support. But he gets my support because his interests are aligned with mine. We both work for the same corporation, and if the corporation does well, we do well. If it does poorly, we do poorly. It has nothing to do with "deserving". It is strictly personal interest.
If you know the answer already, then what is the confusion about? If the people around me are doing well, then they can afford decent insurance, copays, deductibles, etc. You know, like back in the 70's and 80s, before all this globalization and exporting our wealth really took off. Before our poor and unskilled had to compete with 3rd world poor and unskilled who were willing to work for a dollar a day. If the people around you are doing well, then they can afford to pay for whatever it is you are selling.
Then there is the form of government. We had this discussion last week, so I don't want to rehash the whole thing, but I generally like what our government stands for. I mean in an idealistic sort of way. I know it is not perfect, and it often strays from the ideal, but at least it has that ideal to stave for. Since I don't agree with you that we have magic natural rights that come from the sky God or the natural rights fairy, it means our rights come from our government. Without government enforcement of our rights, it is the law of the jungle out there. In order to keep these rights that I believe in and love, I need our country to be strong enough to deter other countries who may not believe in these rights.
So no, an American is not more deserving than a Mexican or Iranian. I never argued that he was more deserving of my support. But he gets my support because his interests are aligned with mine. We both work for the same corporation, and if the corporation does well, we do well. If it does poorly, we do poorly. It has nothing to do with "deserving". It is strictly personal interest.
No, they don't.. we have certain unalienable (inalienabe?) rights. Even the Constitution affirms this.
'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness."
No, they don't.. we have certain unalienable (inalienabe?) rights. Even the Constitution affirms this.
'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness."
You have it backwards.
No, actually, you have it backwards.
Just because someone writes something down, doesn't make it true.
Those rights are in our constitution because those are the rights that our founding fathers believed in, and the rights they wanted their new government to enforce. And I agree with them. But it never hurts to have God on your side, so they wrote that God was on our side so the people would believe that God gives us those rights.
But in reality, anyone bigger than you, or a better shot than you, can take away all those rights from you in a split second , and God won't do anything to stop them. It is the US government that stops them from taking away your rights, not God.
There is nothing "natural" about rights. In fact, they are completely unnatural. The law of the jungle is natural. Might makes right. Once humans became intelligent enough to make weapons and form strategic alliances, their strength infinitely increased. Strength is the only thing that can enforce "rights", which is a concept thought up by humans.
Considering Charles Darwin wasn't even born until 30 years after the founders wrote about God given rights, I can understand their mindset, and I don't blame them for thinking this way. It is the people today who still believe this, that I wonder about.
Last edited by AnesthesiaMD; 07-24-2020 at 06:55 PM..
There is no point in having US citizenship anymore. It has been debased, devalued. What´s the point of having documents and doing things legally if illegal aliens can do whatever they damn want? This is absolutely disgusting and another sign of just how bad NJ is as a state (and much of the northeast when it comes to these things). ILLEGAL aliens should be deported immediately.
The fact that so many people support this though makes me lose all hope in trying to convince people. NJ is already a lost cause. The founding fathers (for those who quote them a lot) most definitely did not intend the US to become a haven for illegal aliens. That came later, starting in the 1960s when the loony left took full control over our institutions.
I no longer believe "America" is worth fighting for politically, since the New Amerika is not about freedom at all, but about pandering to illegals and now to St. Floyd. Not worth any headaches to defend a nation that has lost its way.
Do you know how many average families had landscapers when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s? Answer none. That was a service that was reserved for the well off. The reason that there are now landscaping company every 5 feet and the reason they have grown so much it’s because the labor has come down enough that regular people can afford to use those services. If they had to start using Americans for all their positions, 3/4 of them would probably go out of business because people would no longer be able to pay the higher prices.
All the jobs they are doing are piecemeal jobs with no benefits. They are not full-time jobs. And they contribute a lot to the economy.
So? American kids should go back to mowing lawns like it was in the past. Importing millions of illiterates from third countries just to mow your lawn is insane and has destroyed our country.
I just want to remind you all that our “founding fathers” came here and slaughtered the natives of this land and you expect illegal immigrants to be ashamed of entering this country without permission, even when they’re not physically harming a soul. FOH
I just want to remind you all that our “founding fathers” came here and slaughtered the natives of this land and you expect illegal immigrants to be ashamed of entering this country without permission, even when they’re not physically harming a soul. FOH
But they are -- they are cheapening the cost of labor at the expense of Americans (and let me not even get into rising crime).
This land has no "natives". Stop it. In fact, up until the 1960s, "Native American" meant native born American, particularly White. Then in the 1960s, the bs started and Indians were now called Native American. But technically, even Indians came from somewhere else. However, the UNITED STATES was a country founded for a free people, it was never intended to become a haven for illegal immigrants.
Pick up a real history book.
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