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When Italians came through Ellis Island in the early part of last century, they were NOT considered to be white. They worked hard (without any kind of help) and bettered themselves.
How about in the 1800's, when all the Irish were immigrating here? When most storefronts/businesses had signs that read INNA (Irish Need Not Apply). I think that kind of treatment is more harsh than what minorities today go through, no? And the Irish-Americans did just fine.
They were afforded the opportunities to better themselves; minorities, especially African Americans, were not. Have you heard of black communities being burned to the ground because the inhabitants were living better than whites? It happened all over this country. You can say anything you want about Irish and Italians facing discrimination, but the bottom line is their descendants are now considered white and are afforded rights as full human beings.
When Italians came through Ellis Island in the early part of last century, they were NOT considered to be white. They worked hard (without any kind of help) and bettered themselves.
How about in the 1800's, when all the Irish were immigrating here? When most storefronts/businesses had signs that read INNA (Irish Need Not Apply). I think that kind of treatment is more harsh than what minorities today go through, no? And the Irish-Americans did just fine.
I know racist people of all colors but it has been my experience that minorities are more aware of their actions whereas the others will debate me day and night that they were just joking or i misunderstood or whatever...As far as the Italian immigrant issue, it depends on what account of history your willing to believe (as history is subjective). It is believed that Italian immigrants were able to become "white" and achieve a status in this country that blacks were unable to due to skin color...Here is an excerpt I found on Amazon from a book that further discusses this issue (this gives an overall idea of what im hinting at)
"When immigrants from southern and eastern Europe arrived in America, their status was somewhere below that of "native" white Americans but above that of blacks and other nonwhites. In the period 1890 to 1945, social upheavals in labor, housing, and politics shifted and allowed these immigrants to take on the mantle of whiteness. Roediger explores the social forces that elevated the social status of these immigrants and contributed to deepening racial divisions. This ethnic focus is really deemed by Roediger as part of race history in the U.S., how people were placed within an evolving intellectual and social structure. Roediger focuses on the early twentieth century, when these new immigrants lived an in-between existence as their white consciousness took form. Segregated housing practices, and labor unions favoring the immigrants over blacks, helped to solidify the whiteness status. U.S. policy, notably the New Deal, also helped to confirm the inclusion of people who had formerly suffered the low social status of unassimilated immigrants. - Working Toward Whiteness: How America's Immigrants Become White. The Strange Journey from Ellis Island to the Suburbs Vernon Ford
They were afforded the opportunities to better themselves; minorities, especially African Americans, were not. Have you heard of black communities being burned to the ground because the inhabitants were living better than whites? It happened all over this country. You can say anything you want about Irish and Italians facing discrimination, but the bottom line is their descendants are now considered white and are afforded rights as full human beings.
Of course they are considered white now, but back then they were heartily discriminated against, and often in a violent manner. They did not look for handouts, instead they worked their asses off for sh*t money and improved their lives.
OH...and they didn't wire their earnings to their families back in Italy and Ireland...they were proud to be Americans.
I don't see a lot of that pride in immigrants today, and I know a lot of immigrants on a personal level.
Of course they are considered white now, but back then they were heartily discriminated against, and often in a violent manner. They did not look for handouts, instead they worked their asses off for sh*t money and improved their lives.
OH...and they didn't wire their earnings to their families back in Italy and Ireland...they were proud to be Americans.
I don't see a lot of that pride in immigrants today, and I know a lot of immigrants on a personal level.
It is true that immigrants from the 1800's and turn of the century worked hard, but let's not be naive that if they had any govt help, they would've not taken it. They sure did send money back home w/ relatives who were going back, this is nothing new, which is still done today by today's immigrants. By no means am I trying to take away their hard work and sacrificies, it's just that those were different times and therefor they had to play by whatever rules were there.
I must agree though w/ your statement that there's no pride in today's immigrants, they do not want to assimiliate (IMO of course) and expect the rest to adjust to them. Funny & sad to say that I've experienced many instances where I get the "look" because I choose to speak English (I'm third generation) in a spanish speaking gathering.
It is true that immigrants from the 1800's and turn of the century worked hard, but let's not be naive that if they had any govt help, they would've not taken it. They sure did send money back home w/ relatives who were going back, this is nothing new, which is still done today by today's immigrants. By no means am I trying to take away their hard work and sacrificies, it's just that those were different times and therefor they had to play by whatever rules were there.
I must agree though w/ your statement that there's no pride in today's immigrants, they do not want to assimiliate (IMO of course) and expect the rest to adjust to them. Funny & sad to say that I've experienced many instances where I get the "look" because I choose to speak English (I'm third generation) in a spanish speaking gathering.
I'm not saying that they wouldn't have TAKEN assistance. Of course they would have. I'm angry that today's government OFFERS this type of assistance. I'm less angry at the people who are taking it...more angry at the people who are GIVING it (government).
In my opinion, it's this stuff that causes immigrants to not have that kind of pride. See the connection? The fact that yesterday's immigrants had to fight tooth and nail for every ounce of respect caused them to develop respect in themselves and respect in their new country. Therefore, they were PROUD to be Americans, in the country that gave them so many opportunities.
FYI, it's not just Hispanic immigrants that lack this sense of pride. Lots of Middle Eastern folks as well, and Europeans.
Not assuming at all, in civil service jobs if you fall under the AA guidelines your scores are enhanced, thus if a score of 85 is needed and you fall under AA you need only score a 75 as you get 10 points added, worse yet you do score an 85 but elevate to a 95 because of AA ( not sure of the exact point added just using these numbers for example) so you really aren't qualified against anyone who achieved that score on their own
Yes I know!! I can over look that after all they have put their azz on the line for us..is there a point here?? Just wondering
not all put their "azz" on the line for us. i thought everyone should be judged on their own merits without special consideration, that's all - that's the impression i get from this thread. i guess not.
not all put their "azz" on the line for us. i thought everyone should be judged on their own merits without special consideration, that's all - that's the impression i get from this thread. i guess not.
WOW.....The point system for vets I believe is 5 points for serving and 10 points if serving during an active war.....I don't have a problem with this after all just about every rule has an exception!!!! You would deny a vet a special privilege As long as AA is going to give gary gangbanger a head start I don't have a problem with a vet getting it
Funny just reading something this AM from The LA Bar....seems they have done a study of law students under affirmative action...drop out rate and failure rate is higher..hmmmm could that be because with out AA they could not of made the grade..so because of AA they are in over their head, drop out or fail mean while there was a student somewhere who lost out and more then likely had the brains to complete law school
WOW.....The point system for vets I believe is 5 points for serving and 10 points if serving during an active war.....I don't have a problem with this after all just about every rule has an exception!!!! You would deny a vet a special privilege As long as AA is going to give gary gangbanger a head start I don't have a problem with a vet getting it
Funny just reading something this AM from The LA Bar....seems they have done a study of law students under affirmative action...drop out rate and failure rate is higher..hmmmm could that be because with out AA they could not of made the grade..so because of AA they are in over their head, drop out or fail mean while there was a student somewhere who lost out and more then likely had the brains to complete law school
Where did I say I'd deny a vet? But nice of you to assume that I'd give Gary Gangbanger more of a shot than GI Joe. I'm the daughter of *2* vets, BTW.
From reading this thread, the OVERWHELMING response seems to be everyone should be judged without preferential treatment - but that's not the case.
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