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It was sarcasm my friend. I assure you I am not angry or defensive.
Your posts, up until you gave up, are over-defensive to the point you're making things up about me. I have every reason to believe you are or were angry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by k0bun
I am backing out because I can tell when a discussion has lost all forward momentum and has just become a pissing contest. You arrogantly refuse to see any side other than your own.
That's not true at all. I'm open to seeing the other side of this issue, but nobody has made a good case for it yet. It's pretty cut and dry, as I see it; most people want to keep the blue laws, and it's the community's right to do so. The reasons behind keeping them are agreed upon by the majority of us. The opposing view is that the businesses should not be limited to 6 days a week of business, for the sake of the minority of those in the community. You, yourself, add to this that it isn't "fair" for the majority to put their wishes ahead of the wishes of the minority. Well, sorry to break it to you, bu that's entirely fair, except where there's some form of illegal discrimination involved (i.e. sex, race, religion, etc.). There isn't. It's POSSIBLE that Jews have a case based on discrimination; that's the strongest argument against Blue Laws, but they don't feel strongly enough about it to make it an issue. My guess is that they would rather keep their businesses open on Saturday than Sunday.
Quote:
Originally Posted by k0bun
I have dealt with people like you on many occasions and I can recognize when efforts are futile. I refrained from any negative remarks because it is not how I debate a subject.
Right. I guess you mean other than saying something negative like "family neglecting heathens" and implying that I said such a thing. Or constantly telling me I "don't understand" as your little dig at me, implying that it's not your failure of communication but my failure of comprehension. Or telling me you're "shaking [your] head" at something I said and going on to say that what I said is "what is wrong with our country". I could go on and on with your negativity. If you want more examples, just ask.
And now you delude yourself (or, perhaps, are trying to just fool anyone reading your post) that you "refrained from any negative remarks because it is not how [you] debate a subject." Yes, you do use negativity (much of which seems emotionally driven) to debate; you lack logic and reasoning in your debating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by k0bun
You may not admit or even realize how your posts portray your attitude or prove my points but believe me they are there and I'm sure I'm not the only one who sees it. So you may say whatever you need to save face and make me look irrational.
This is your projection of your own position onto me. You are the one trying to 'save face' by trying to 'graciously concede', and I'm not going to let you off the hook so easily. You said things about me that aren't true and will point that out. You are being irrational and I am pointing that out, also.
An example of your irrational argument:
You tried to make a point based on your assertion that: "Saying that these people are only losing for the most part, one afternoon, not even a full day, means you are putting a value on their time." Right, I put a "value" on their time. So, you're saying I'm being selfish - "it's selfish to want to go out without other people going out too."
You then told me, "You can't do that." So I can't be "selfish".
You then went on to tell me, "The difference is I admit that it's selfish. Do you see? You want something. I want something. He/she wants something. Almost everything everyone does is selfish. We are individuals and have our own wants and needs that differ from others. Laws are imposed to try and keep some form of civility amongst the population. Bergen County decided that it's residents want Sunday off. Well the majority have spoken. I am completely fine with that."
So, if you're "completely fine with that", then why are you telling me "you can't do that"?? (Notice another negative in your debate, here.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by k0bun
Anyone with even a slight sense of conscientious thought can understand what I was trying to say.
So you're saying that if I can't "understand what [you were] trying to say" that it must be due to a lack of "even a slight sense of conscientious thought" on MY part, as opposed to any failure to properly argue your point using well-reasoned, logical points, right? And you say that you "refrained from any negative remarks because it is not how [you] debate a subject"??? Are you serious??? You don't see how it's negative to use an ad hom, as you did, to try to save face while you escape an argument?
Quote:
Originally Posted by k0bun
I concede that you have won the argument because I no longer have the time or patience to discuss matters with someone who continues to be this stubborn. Do with that what you will.
More negative remarks in your effort to get out of this looking OK, but it won't work.
If this argument is over, I won it based on logic and reasoning, and I've shown it. All you've shown is your frustrated attempts to argue your myopic points based on emotionally-driven negative attacks.
Your whole argument was essentially, "I don't like how mean you're being in not considering other people and their rights and demanding your rights be more than theirs and you're stubborn and stupid to not understand me". Well, nowhere did I demand "more rights" than others, and nowhere did I not consider their rights, and I was no stubborn or misunderstanding of your point.
Keep talking though, keep digging that hole and looking more foolish.
your town affects me because it is an example for other towns. if an unfair law can pass in one town/county, then it can pass in my town/county.
What does this have to do with anything? What "unfair law" has to do with this topic? Are you saying Blue Laws are "unfair laws"??? If so, then HOW are they "unfair"??
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ
thats why the NRA (and other political organizations) sends me emails when gun laws are passed in New Jersey and when they are passed in other states. even if it didnt impact me at all, id have an opinion. i remember before 9/11 i read the news about the persecution of non-muslims in afghanistan. i can relate that to us but thats really not the point. i also read about things going on in europe, middle east, south asia, etc. etc. and i have opinions. its good to have opinions on issues that may or may not impact you. trying to shut up people who arent directly involved, is just a way to shut up opposition. if i agreed with you then i doubt you would be complaining.
Why are you so paranoid that people are trying to "shut you up"??? Someonee disagrees with your opinion and you cry that they are trying to "shut up opposition". Are YOU trying to shut up opposition when you disagree with us??? Or is it only when people disagree with you???
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Originally Posted by CaptainNJ
whats there to get? if you dont live off of the major highways and dont hear the sounds, then why do you care if the stores are open?
That's fine if you choose to make yourself a prisoner in your home. But if you want to get out and go to a park or restaurant or church or to visit people or run essential errands then those throngs of shoppers can ruin your day, at least here in Bergen County. That's why we care if the stores are open or not. You wouldn't understand because you don't know anything about Bergen County, you probably never come up here. I doubt you've ever been here except maybe driving through on 17 or the parkway or Palisades.
What does this have to do with anything? What "unfair law" has to do with this topic? Are you saying Blue Laws are "unfair laws"??? If so, then HOW are they "unfair"??
Why are you so paranoid that people are trying to "shut you up"??? Someonee disagrees with your opinion and you cry that they are trying to "shut up opposition". Are YOU trying to shut up opposition when you disagree with us??? Or is it only when people disagree with you???
That's fine if you choose to make yourself a prisoner in your home. But if you want to get out and go to a park or restaurant or church or to visit people or run essential errands then those throngs of shoppers can ruin your day, at least here in Bergen County. That's why we care if the stores are open or not. You wouldn't understand because you don't know anything about Bergen County, you probably never come up here. I doubt you've ever been here except maybe driving through on 17 or the parkway or Palisades.
they are unfair because they take away the opportunity of people to shop on sunday and businesses to do business on sunday.
paranoid? you are trying to boot me from this conversation because i dont live there. how is it paranoia when you are clearly doing exactly what im saying you are doing?
i may choose to make myself a prisoner. i may choose to go shopping. i may choose to go to the park. i like to make that choice not have others make it for me.
BCJ, relax man. I don't know if I said it earlier, but I, and many BC residents (current, ex, or w/relatives) agree with what you are saying.
But I have to admit you are coming on a little strong.
I will admit I love Vindaloo, but sometimes you just have to settle for Karahi..... (I like Karahi!!!! )
lol, I will try to tone it down. I have been, but I guess not enough. I'm not the only one "coming on a little strong", though. Heck, I even let the "drama queen" comment Captain NJ made about me go.
they are unfair because they take away the opportunity of people to shop on sunday and businesses to do business on sunday.
So by this logic it's unfair to tell businesses when they can or can't do business. So if your neighbor asks his landscaper to mow the lawn on weekends, and the landscaper decides to mow the lawn at 2 AM on Sat. morning, then that's fair, because telling the business otherwise would be unfair to the business. Right? You'd be OK with your neighbor's landscaper firing up their machines at 2 AM? You wouldn't want to be unfair to their business by telling them when to cut the lawn or not, would you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ
paranoid? you are trying to boot me from this conversation because i dont live there. how is it paranoia when you are clearly doing exactly what im saying you are doing?
Where am I "trying to boot [you] from this conversation because [you] dont live [here]"?? I'm simply pointing out that because you don't live here, your opinion is not based on first-hand experience. Stay all you like, I'm not trying to "boot" you. But I'm going to make the point that your opinion is an outsider's opinion and not based on first-hand experience so much as speculation or conjecture on your part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ
i may choose to make myself a prisoner. i may choose to go shopping. i may choose to go to the park. i like to make that choice not have others make it for me.
So if your neighbor's landscaper mows the lawn at 2 AM every saturday morninng, you may choose to go stay in a hotel every Friday night if you don't like the noise, or you may choose to just deal with the noise - maybe buy earplugs, or buy expensive, top-quality soundproofing. As long as nobody else is making that choice for you.
So by this logic it's unfair to tell businesses when they can or can't do business. So if your neighbor asks his landscaper to mow the lawn on weekends, and the landscaper decides to mow the lawn at 2 AM on Sat. morning, then that's fair, because telling the business otherwise would be unfair to the business. Right? You'd be OK with your neighbor's landscaper firing up their machines at 2 AM? You wouldn't want to be unfair to their business by telling them when to cut the lawn or not, would you?
you love this example. mowing lawns at 1am, having a marching band walking through your neigborhood at 3am, etc. why arent you using equivalent examples to the situation here? why are you trying to expand this beyond the relevant situation? is it because the situation as it is in paramus isnt bad enough so you need to use examples of situations that are much worse? or are you saying that having stores open are equal to having a landscaper mowing lawns in the middle of the night?
lol, I will try to tone it down. I have been, but I guess not enough. I'm not the only one "coming on a little strong", though. Heck, I even let the "drama queen" comment Captain NJ made about me go.
you love this example. mowing lawns at 1am, having a marching band walking through your neigborhood at 3am, etc. why arent you using equivalent examples to the situation here? why are you trying to expand this beyond the relevant situation? is it because the situation as it is in paramus isnt bad enough so you need to use examples of situations that are much worse? or are you saying that having stores open are equal to having a landscaper mowing lawns in the middle of the night?
Because the principle is the same. You are trying to argue that the blue laws are "unfair" and you are using the reason that " they take away the opportunity of people to shop on sunday and businesses to do business on sunday". In other words, you are saying blue laws are unfair because they restrict business between businesses and their customers.
So, what I'm saying is that if you believe that business should not be restricted, then that should go for the landscaper mowing your neighbor's lawn at 2 AM, also.
Now, if your argument is that there are times that it is "reasonable" to limit business, for example, telling a landscaper he can't mow the lawn at 2 AM because the community decided to limit businesses from such activity as it would disrupt the community too much, then how is it unfair for a community like Bergen County or Paramus to make a similar decision on restricting business where they, as a community, see the operation of business at certain times having an impact on their quality of life??
So, which is it? Do you believe it's unfair for a community to:
- restrict business between businesses and their customers, EVER?
OR
- restrict business between businesses and their customers only when you, yourself, thinks it's reasonable to do so?
What's unfair about one and not the other?
It's fine that you have your opinion that one is reasonable but not the other; but to say that it's "unfair" is out of line. What's fair is that any community decide what they want in their community, as long as it doesn't violate the rights of a protected minority.
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I guess you mean other than saying something negative like "family neglecting heathens" and implying that I said such a thing. Or constantly telling me I "don't understand" as your little dig at me, implying that it's not your failure of communication but my failure of comprehension. Or telling me you're "shaking [your] head" at something I said and going on to say that what I said is "what is wrong with our country". I could go on and on with your negativity. If you want more examples, just ask.
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