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I'm not familiar with the voucher system, but I can attest to the fact that there is fraud and waste in the public school system. One of the key elephants in the room is tenure.
There aren't very many professions where you could be terrible at your job, or simply refuse to do your job, and yet still be able to keep your job! But teachers are the exception to this rule. Not only can terrible teachers keep their jobs, but they get a pay raise, excellent benefits, and tons of vacation time per year. Now of course, there are many wonderful teachers in our public schools, and a majority of them work hard. But unfortunately tenure often screws over the good teachers and protect the bad teachers. I'm seeing this happen in my town now. Some excellent teachers are being let go while some not so good teachers get to keep their jobs. This is just plain wrong.
Then what would replace it? How would you protect teachers from the politics of the school board?
And I say this as one of the low teachers on the totum pole. I just got tenure and despite that I will in all likelihood be gone next year due to the budget cuts, so be aware it is not unilateral job security. That is a myth.
Yeah, pretty much. Of course they're officially working for their employer, but they're also working for the customers. They are there to serve the customers. I'm paying them to serve me food. If I'm not satisfied with the food and or service, I can take my money elsewhere. This isn't the case with teachers. Sure, they aren't officially working for the taxpayers, but where're paying their salaries. This is pretty much the same exact argument AnesthesiaMD is making.
You say that like teachers do not pay taxes. Does that make us self employed then?
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Originally Posted by ilovemycomputer90
I'm not familiar with the voucher system, but I can attest to the fact that there is fraud and waste in the public school system. One of the key elephants in the room is tenure.
There aren't very many professions where you could be terrible at your job, or simply refuse to do your job, and yet still be able to keep your job! But teachers are the exception to this rule. Not only can terrible teachers keep their jobs, but they get a pay raise, excellent benefits, and tons of vacation time per year. Now of course, there are many wonderful teachers in our public schools, and a majority of them work hard. But unfortunately tenure often screws over the good teachers and protect the bad teachers. I'm seeing this happen in my town now. Some excellent teachers are being let go while some not so good teachers get to keep their jobs. This is just plain wrong.
Tenured teachers can be let go with cause. If a teacher fails to do his or her job, union or no union, tenure or no tenure, that is cause.
Then what would replace it? How would you protect teachers from the politics of the school board?
And I say this as one of the low teachers on the totum pole. I just got tenure and despite that I will in all likelihood be gone next year due to the budget cuts, so be aware it is not unilateral job security. That is a myth.
Yes you are right about it not being unilateral job security. I understand that. But teachers are losing their jobs simply based on the amount of time they've been at the school, not on their overall job performance.
I'm sorry you may be losing your job. My mother is losing her job as well. Best of luck.
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Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD
Here is what a lot of people dont seem to get, AND the reason people are so angered. A teacher is NOTHING like the worker at McDonalds. During the time the worker at McDonalds is serving me, he DOES work for me. And if I dont like the service, or feel I am being ripped off, I HAVE THE CHOICE NOT TO GO BACK TO THAT MCDONALD'S. It is as simple as that.
But if I decide a teacher is overcharging me, I still have to pay, or else they take my house away. I am FORCED to go back you YOUR McDonald's EVERY DAY! For years! And you wonder why people are angry? You wonder why people voted Christie into office? You DO work for me, and every other taxpayer. The day the public servants forget they work for the taxpayer is the day we need new public servants.
No he does not work for you. He provides you with a service, per his employer's instructions.
If I went to you, you would not work for me, you would provide a service, for which you would be paid.
A teacher provides a service, for which his or her employer pays a salary.
Tenured teachers can be let go with cause. If a teacher fails to do his or her job, union or no union, tenure or no tenure, that is cause.
And the school that let the teacher go will give the school that's looking to hire that teacher -- rave reviews --highly recommend -- hated to lose him/her -- devastating lose to our school.
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Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD
I base it on the fact that there would be a lot more competition. McNair Academy in JC boasts being one of the top schools in the state. Fine. That's not too hard to do when you can cherry pick the top students in the city. But now, what if there are 50 McNair's? That changes the whole playing field. Now they have to compete for not only the best students, BUT THE BEST TEACHERS as well. A free market can RAISE some teachers salaries too, but at least they will be the ones who have EARNED it. Not just had it mandated by the state.
Then the state of Wisconsin screwed up when writing the formula. That can easily be fixed by not allowing the vouchers to be for more money than the child would cost in the public school. We know how much it costs per child in the NJ school districts, so I dont know what Wisconsin's problem is. Academia, alone is not the only factor. If Holmdel High is paying a lot for the best teachers, they are going to have to charge more for admission. Some people may not choose to go there based on that alone. If enough people decide that, Holmdel will have to lower it's tuition. These are simple market forces. Free markets have built in checks and balances.
The last time that the educational system in this country worked on the free market system, the teachers were paid directly by the parents sending their children to the schools. This was in the 1800s & these were called common schools.
If this is what you are advocating a good many people would be thrilled because they wouldn't have to pay the taxes to support other people's kids' education.
Those teachers did, in fact, work for the parents of the students.
However, as I believe that the topic of this thread is the acidic relationship between the NJEA & the governor, I think that both parties are guilty.
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Originally Posted by lkb0714
Then what would replace it? How would you protect teachers from the politics of the school board?
And I say this as one of the low teachers on the totum pole. I just got tenure and despite that I will in all likelihood be gone next year due to the budget cuts, so be aware it is not unilateral job security. That is a myth.
Yes and the myth that tenure & the union are inter-related is just that, a myth. North Carolina teachers are not unionized & do get tenure,
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If a teacher fails to do his or her job, union or no union, tenure or no tenure, that is cause.
