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Yeah, pretty much. Of course they're officially working for their employer, but they're also working for the customers. They are there to serve the customers. I'm paying them to serve me food. If I'm not satisfied with the food and or service, I can take my money elsewhere. This isn't the case with teachers. Sure, they aren't officially working for the taxpayers, but where're paying their salaries. This is pretty much the same exact argument AnesthesiaMD is making.
I understand his point but I disagree with it.
There is a significant difference between those elected to office to serve the public versus people who are hired by a government department to do a job. He disagrees with my opinion about this.
I work for my school board, with and for my students, to some degree for parents, for the administrators and to a lesser degree the general public but my employer is solely the school board.
A mediocre employee is "providing a service per his employer's instructions". A good employee is working for me.
That makes literally zero sense. As a teacher I should be working for the school board first and foremost in that I provide an education to my students and not some nebulous sense of gratitude to the taxpayer.
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A doctor is who is merely "providing a service" is a doctor that I wouldn't let touch me with a 10 foot pole.
Based on what? If I go see an anesthesiologist what else would he provide? Marital advise? I want him to do his job and provide medical care as related to my anesthesia.
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And a teacher who is just "doing a job", does not deserve the amount of money I am paying in taxes.
What else should a teacher provide? I provide a safe, effective environment, a quality education, tutoring, mentoring, chaperone, coach (and am not paid for it BTW), run clubs, etc.
What else do you expect me to do? Because all of the things above are a teacher doing their job.. You seem to expect something above and beyond that just because our salaries come from the tax rolls.
Shall I genuflect every time a taxpayer walks by? Seriously what more do you expect?
There is a significant difference between those elected to office to serve the public versus people who are hired by a government department to do a job. He disagrees with my opinion about this.
LKB is absolutely right. Teachers are employed by a public school district, which is run by an elected school board and a hired superintendent and business administrator. Teachers answer to the administration and school board - not the general public.
Can you imagine if classroom teachers had to be subject to the whims of every member of the public? Could you imagine what would be going on in our schools if every weirdo parent and whacky neighbor had their say on education? The problem is New Jersey is the funding of education - not the quality of education itself, which is quite good.
That makes literally zero sense. As a teacher I should be working for the school board first and foremost in that I provide an education to my students and not some nebulous sense of gratitude to the taxpayer.
Based on what? If I go see an anesthesiologist what else would he provide? Marital advise? I want him to do his job and provide medical care as related to my anesthesia.
What else should a teacher provide? I.....<cut>
It makes "zero sense" because somehow you substituted yourself for the McDonalds worker. You like to confuse the issues, dont you.
I think this is a sad commentary on what our society has become. Service in this country, in all forms, has really gone down in my lifetime of 40 years. Even more so since the 50s. Your attitude really demonstrates the reason why. The fact that you accept the mediocrity of just a service for a fee, nothing more, nothing less, is astonishing to me. They said globalism would make the world more like us, but it looks like it is working the other way around. The day I am just providing a service for a fee, please shoot me. If that is the case, and there is nothing human left in what I do, I may as well be raking in the dough on Wall Street. In fact, if it ever gets that way for me, that is exactly what I'll do. If you already feel that way about your own job, well, I feel sorry for you.
Wow, guess I was told "off"....when I mentioned the curriculum..I was talking about Florida not N.J..
and I didnt' say that I was envious of a teaching career? It takes a special person to be a teacher. I was
not condeming teachers...I just think sometimes that unions go a little bit overboard...and do more
harm than good to a profession, just my opinion...I guess it's a hot topic no matter where you live.
"First, if you do not pay 25 years towards your pension before you retire (and assuming Coppola was a teacher he paid towards his pension like we all do) you get a tiny portion of the full pension."
is that a whole 25 years of paying towards pension?
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Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD
It makes "zero sense" because somehow you substituted yourself for the McDonalds worker. You like to confuse the issues, dont you.
I think this is a sad commentary on what our society has become. Service in this country, in all forms, has really gone down in my lifetime of 40 years. Even more so since the 50s. Your attitude really demonstrates the reason why. The fact that you accept the mediocrity of just a service for a fee, nothing more, nothing less, is astonishing to me. They said globalism would make the world more like us, but it looks like it is working the other way around. The day I am just providing a service for a fee, please shoot me. If that is the case, and there is nothing human left in what I do, I may as well be raking in the dough on Wall Street. In fact, if it ever gets that way for me, that is exactly what I'll do. If you already feel that way about your own job, well, I feel sorry for you.
No you are confusing it. If you want something that the McDonalds worker, a teacher, or anyone else has been told is not allowable, they have to tell you no, because their employer, the person or company that (or who) is the source of a paycheck will fire him or her. You as the customer do not make the rules or cut the paycheck, because the employee does not work for you.
The employee provides a service, good, bad, or indifferent. I am older than you & this is how it's always been.
As someone else pointed out, correctly, if a teacher attempted to bend to the whims of the general public, anarchy in the classrooms would be the result.
No you are confusing it. If you want something that the McDonalds worker, a teacher, or anyone else has been told is not allowable, they have to tell you no, because their employer, the person or company that (or who) is the source of a paycheck will fire him or her. You as the customer do not make the rules or cut the paycheck, because the employee does not work for you.
The employee provides a service, good, bad, or indifferent. I am older than you & this is how it's always been.
As someone else pointed out, correctly, if a teacher attempted to bend to the whims of the general public, anarchy in the classrooms would be the result.
That's why employers have rules.
And you keep missing the MAIN point here. If I dont like the way I am treated in McDonalds or if I think they are ripping me off, I can go to Burger King. If enough people feel the same way, that McDonalds goes out of business.
If the school is McDonalds and private school is Burger king, I can still go to Burger King, but I have to pay McDonalds too. My only option where I dont pay double is if I relocate my whole family. Thats a lot to go through for a Big Mac and fries.
"First, if you do not pay 25 years towards your pension before you retire (and assuming Coppola was a teacher he paid towards his pension like we all do) you get a tiny portion of the full pension."
is that a whole 25 years of paying towards pension?
Yes and if you are not of a certain age it can be many years more. By the time I am able retire I will have been paying for 30 years.
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