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We have lived in Georgia for the past 16 years (currently the suburbs of Atlanta), but my husband has been offered a very nice job on the border of Saddle River and Allendale.
I am nervous about moving back to NJ (I lived on Morris County for 10 years when I was a kid up through high school) because I have really enjoyed how friendly I think it is here in Atlanta.
Can you recommend a family-friendly (emphasis on friendly) area with great public schools where a non-Italian, non-Irish, non-Polish, non-Jewish family can fit in. I don't mind diversity, just don't want to feel out of place.
We do go to Catholic church, but do not plan on sending our kids to Catholic School.
Also, because of the higher cost of living up there, I feel like what might be a good salary down here, may not offer a good quality of life up North. In order to live comfortably with a nice house (4-5 bedroom with a daylight basement, a yard for the kids to play, and a neighborhood where the kids and play outside with friends) what salary level would you expect someone to have?
Currently, I have 3 SuperTargets and 3 malls within a 15 minute driving distance, yet still live in a Mayberry-like neighborhood with trees, a town 4th of July parade, and local shops. Anything like that up there? I've heard Allendale has a cool Halloween, and wonder if that neighborliness extends beyond the October holiday.
Southern hospitality in NJ? Not going to happen. That's why it's Southern, you don't find it up North.
BUT people are indeed VERY friendly, especially outside of the cities. I want to give you my theory on things maybe it will help you see thing differently. I grew up in NYC, I think NYers have worst reputation as far as friendliness goes. IMO this is wrong, very, very wrong. We are not unfriendly, we are simply in a rush. Everything we do we want it done quickly so if you need some help with directions or something you will find that most people have no problem helping you out and being nice as long as you're quick about it. You want to get to XYZ street? Great, here's how. If I have to listen to 10 minutes of WHY you are going to XYZ I'm going to loose my paitence and snap. I know some people consider it unfriendly that we don't make eye contact or smile and say hi to people. Again, this is in the interest of time in a busy city you will cross path with thousands of people everyday, it will take too much time (and make my face hurt) if I smile at all those people!! Also when the population is denser I feel like it's somewhat of a defense mechanism to ignore people; you don't have a lot of space to yourself so you ignore people and pretend they are not there as way of carving out a little bit of mental space for yourself. People who are not used to this tend to think of this as "unfriendly" behavior, not so. People are friendly if anything just a bit shy, reach out to them (when they are not in a rush) and you will find people just as friendly if not more so than down south. You will also find a lot less hipocracy, less of those people that you know don't like you being nice to you for the sake of being friendly and then talking about you the second you walk away.
All that said, people take more time to be friendly the further removed you are from a city. The higher the percentage of home owners over renters the more inclined your neighbors will be to invest in forming relationships with each other.
I recently move to a town that I consider to be very "mayberry" like. All the neighbors know each other, kids can safely play outside and walk/bike around the neighborhood, there's community activities like weekly block party type get togethers in the summer, 4th of july fireworks, at x-mas Santa Claus flies in on a helicopter and takes pictures with each child while the cops hand out candy canes to people in line, tomorrow night is family game night, we have three private lake communities with beaches, play grounds, swim lessons and sports teams, in the warmer months you see kids fishing in the lake then having a picnic lunch. It's very quaint and people are friendly.
There's many places in NJ that will make you feel at home
What's your budget?
As for salary, 4 or 5 bedrooms in a nice safe suburban town with good schools, assuming you don't have mountains of debt and a nice size down payment I'd say about 150K? You won't be living in the lap of luxury but you will certainly get by.
Southern hospitality in NJ? Not going to happen. That's why it's Southern, you don't find it up North.
BUT people are indeed VERY friendly, especially outside of the cities. I want to give you my theory on things maybe it will help you see thing differently. I grew up in NYC, I think NYers have worst reputation as far as friendliness goes. IMO this is wrong, very, very wrong. We are not unfriendly, we are simply in a rush. Everything we do we want it done quickly so if you need some help with directions or something you will find that most people have no problem helping you out and being nice as long as you're quick about it. You want to get to XYZ street? Great, here's how. If I have to listen to 10 minutes of WHY you are going to XYZ I'm going to loose my paitence and snap. I know some people consider it unfriendly that we don't make eye contact or smile and say hi to people. Again, this is in the interest of time in a busy city you will cross path with thousands of people everyday, it will take too much time (and make my face hurt) if I smile at all those people!! Also when the population is denser I feel like it's somewhat of a defense mechanism to ignore people; you don't have a lot of space to yourself so you ignore people and pretend they are not there as way of carving out a little bit of mental space for yourself. People who are not used to this tend to think of this as "unfriendly" behavior, not so. People are friendly if anything just a bit shy, reach out to them (when they are not in a rush) and you will find people just as friendly if not more so than down south. You will also find a lot less hipocracy, less of those people that you know don't like you being nice to you for the sake of being friendly and then talking about you the second you walk away.
All that said, people take more time to be friendly the further removed you are from a city. The higher the percentage of home owners over renters the more inclined your neighbors will be to invest in forming relationships with each other.
I recently move to a town that I consider to be very "mayberry" like. All the neighbors know each other, kids can safely play outside and walk/bike around the neighborhood, there's community activities like weekly block party type get togethers in the summer, 4th of july fireworks, at x-mas Santa Claus flies in on a helicopter and takes pictures with each child while the cops hand out candy canes to people in line, tomorrow night is family game night, we have three private lake communities with beaches, play grounds, swim lessons and sports teams, in the warmer months you see kids fishing in the lake then having a picnic lunch. It's very quaint and people are friendly.
There's many places in NJ that will make you feel at home
What's your budget?
As for salary, 4 or 5 bedrooms in a nice safe suburban town with good schools, assuming you don't have mountains of debt and a nice size down payment I'd say about 150K? You won't be living in the lap of luxury but you will certainly get by.
I made the opposite move three years ago, leaving central NJ for Cherokee County, GA, so I can relate to your questions. A few comments:
- "Fitting in" probably won't be as big of an issue as you think- metro Atlanta isn't "typical south", so it's not going to be the rude awakening you would have if you were moving from Albany, GA or somewhere in rural Mississippi.
- Daylight basements aren't as popular in NJ as they are in GA, and you're likely to have a tough time finding one. Most basements are almost completely subterranean, with small windows or light wells to get light into the space, but they usually still "feel like a basement".
- You'll definitely need a significant salary bump if you're looking at having a nice, newer, spacious home and maintain your current standard of living- the cost of housing (even with the slip in the economy) and the property taxes will be quite a bit higher than what you're currently paying. You're likely to find that the salary difference isn't all that great though, unless you're in an NJ/NY-centric business like the stock market or pharma.
- It might help to know what town you're living in now, as that may narrow down the areas that would be a similar fit in northern NJ.
As an idea of what to expect, here's a house in Maywood, which is a fairly nice town in Bergen County, listed for $460k.
I live in Ringwood, I can't tell you enough how much I absolutely LOVE it. The natural beauty of this neighborhood is stunning. I know you're a NYer too, it's a faaaaaaaaaar cry from the type of childhood you get in NYC. I won't go on and on about all the activities in town but let's just say I didn't even mention a quarter of the stuff.
Best part? It's totally affordable!!! Our house is 3bd 1.5 bth about 3200 sq ft, almost an acre of land with a lakeview and we paid under $300k!! The neighborhood is very mixed in terms of housing so there are tiny log cabins (HAHAHA, yes real log cabins, you don't see those in the city!) sitting next to huge mcmansions, there's really something for everybody (as long as you don't mind a little extra commute time)
The newer homes....the McMansions so to speak...some have what is called a "walk out basement" I know my neighbor has one..with sliding glass doors and all..would this be similar to what o/p is calling a daylight basement??? Just curious
The newer homes....the McMansions so to speak...some have what is called a "walk out basement" I know my neighbor has one..with sliding glass doors and all..would this be similar to what o/p is calling a daylight basement??? Just curious
Yup- same thing. They're out there in NJ- they're just not all that common, as the topography often doesn't allow for them. In GA, they "make their own topography" so they can build up the lots to allow for the walk-out basements.
How are the schools? We have 2 daughters, age 5 & 6.
I lived in Dunwoody, GA... a suburb north of Atlanta.
Housing price range is anything from 500k to possibly 1 mil. Sounds like a walk out basement is the same thing as a daylight basement. My DH really likes open floor plans (ie. family room/kitchen open to each other). We might be able to deal with a McMansion style home, but not the postage stamp property size. We also like homes that have the original craftsman or Victorian look on the outside, but has been completely remodeled on the inside.
I love the idea of a true community feel, but with access to decent shopping nearby. My parents live in Randolph, NJ and I remember growing up that we had to drive 15 minutes just to get to a grocery store. Where I live now, I am a mile from a supermarket and less than 5 miles from SuperTarger, SuperWalmart and 2 Malls. But it doesn't feel like strip mall central here. It is just convenient to get places.
How does Bergen County, or Ringwood, compare to towns in NY across the border? I am also looking in that area.
As for salary, it would be at least 200k, but possibly in the 300 - 400k range. Just trying to get a feel for what to aim for.
We currently live in a split-level house, and do not want to purchase that or a ranch when we move.
I am so happy to find such helpful people in the NJ forum. Maybe the north does have its own brand of hospitality after all.
If you're in the $200k salary range, you can do OK in Bergen County, but likely won't find a home that fits all of what you described. Get up in the $300k range, and you'll easily be able to find something that works for you.
Dunwoody is a kinda unique area that may not be easily replicated in NJ/NY though- it's got a small-town feel without being "out in the sticks" and with all the modern amenities. Off the top of my head, I really can't think of anyplace that will be similar, though if you get somewhere near the major shopping areas in Paramus, at least you can get the shopping side of things handled. There are folks on here with a far more intimate knowledge of that area who should be able to help you.
How are the schools? We have 2 daughters, age 5 & 6.
I lived in Dunwoody, GA... a suburb north of Atlanta.
Housing price range is anything from 500k to possibly 1 mil. Sounds like a walk out basement is the same thing as a daylight basement. My DH really likes open floor plans (ie. family room/kitchen open to each other). We might be able to deal with a McMansion style home, but not the postage stamp property size. We also like homes that have the original craftsman or Victorian look on the outside, but has been completely remodeled on the inside.
I love the idea of a true community feel, but with access to decent shopping nearby. My parents live in Randolph, NJ and I remember growing up that we had to drive 15 minutes just to get to a grocery store. Where I live now, I am a mile from a supermarket and less than 5 miles from SuperTarger, SuperWalmart and 2 Malls. But it doesn't feel like strip mall central here. It is just convenient to get places.
How does Bergen County, or Ringwood, compare to towns in NY across the border? I am also looking in that area.
As for salary, it would be at least 200k, but possibly in the 300 - 400k range. Just trying to get a feel for what to aim for.
We currently live in a split-level house, and do not want to purchase that or a ranch when we move.
I am so happy to find such helpful people in the NJ forum. Maybe the north does have its own brand of hospitality after all.
No longer. That area has grown...
You will do fine in Bergen County also wise to look across the border in NY as well
and WELCOME HOME
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where?
