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Some prefer Cockney but yeap i understand what you're saying about speaking english and anglo.
Also if i recall correctly most of the mexicans in el paso don't call the germans stationed at Ft. Bliss who speak fluent german and have a heavy german accent anglo as they call them german(s) implying that they are not anglophile.
It's not about speaking English because there are hispanics even in El Paso who speak English. I'm not sure where blacks fit into the "anglo" or "hispanic" division. You can be black and speak English perfectly well, with family that has lived in the USA under American laws and political system for centuries and only spoke Engish and still not be viewed as an "anglo" because that isn't what makes for "anglo". It's far more a racial term than that.
It's not about speaking English because there are hispanics even in El Paso who speak English. I'm not sure where blacks fit into the "anglo" or "hispanic" division. You can be black and speak English perfectly well, with family that has lived in the USA under American laws and political system for centuries and only spoke Engish and still not be viewed as an "anglo" because that isn't what makes for "anglo". It's far more a racial term than that.
So in other words its an american/canadian caucasian who primarily speaks english correct?
Yes and to the point it gets ridiculous. One of my old college friends for example, grew up in the Midwest, most his family has never stepped foot in Mexico, he did but didn't feel comfortable there - nor does he feel comfortable anywhere outside the Midwest USA. They speak no Spanish, speak English with a midwest accent, yet they will call themselves "Mexicans".
Obviously there's nothing wrong with being a "Mexican" but the term belongs to the people of that country, with that country's citizenship. Just like "Anglo" refers to the people of England, or if one wants to use it as a race term, it belongs to a tribe of people -- "anglo-saxons" who settled in a part of Europe and England.
Hummmm, my family moved to the new world in 1680 from Belgium. When the mood strikes, and when asked, I refer to myself as "Belch". I also speak Spanish and, when refered to as an "Anglo", I take no offence, it is a generic term for anyone who is light skinned and speaks English (I've been meaning to learn English). Neither do I take offence at "Gringo", the word means "foreigner", often in Veracruz, the city thereof, they will ask what part of Spain I am from, I tell them I'm from the U.S. and am "Gringo Puro". This usually gets a smile.
Well it's not law, just social convention. "Anglo-ness" is in the eye of the beholder. You're basically an Anglo, or Hispano, or something else if I say you're one. Maybe to someone else you're something else and they're free to describe you however they wish. However, if there's a common understanding between me and the person I'm speaking to, mission accomplished. It's kind of like Potter Stewart's description of obscenity: "I can't define it but I know it when I see it".
I agree with you, if someone is white and of Celtic, or Basque, or Finnish, or Irish, or Russian descent, the FACT IS they are not Anglo descent, and they have the right to assert that they do not wish to be mislabeled as Anglo. There is no question that it's disrespectful.
I personally am white and a first generation American and I am respectful of other people's cultural backgrounds. If I mistook a Japanese person for Chinese, I would not tell them they had no right to be offended! I would simply apologize for my mistake. I do tolerate the term white, even though honestly I know white is not really a race, it's just a skin color, but I'll put up with that.
So even if some folks manage to convince themselves that the term Anglo is not offensive, just remember America is not the world folks. Just try heading off to Europe and referring to all white people as Anglo. That's not gona fly folks.
that is exactly what people should do is apologize if the person gets offended by what you call them. a person should be the only one who decides what they are. I have had employers put down that I am hispanic without asking me, I just politely correct them that I am Native American, American Indian, Indian, NDN, whatever but that is what I want to be refered to as and will tell someone if they get it wrong. I dont get all offended but would correct them.
The term Anglo works well and no one in the region takes offense to it. The term "gringo" is widely used in south America. The Brazilians call Mexicans gringos. They use it in the proper form to mean you are from somewhere else.
It's not offensive, I agree. It does seem odd though.
I've never used or heard "anglo" when speaking about our race or other races with other white people. I hardly ever hear white people use it. I've lived in AZ all my life and have as far as I can remember have only heard Indians and Chicanos use "anglo" It seems like it's used more in NM.
As for "gringo", it doesn't bother me much, but many Chicanos/Mexicans have told me it carries as much offense as the N-word in American culture.
Seriously - why would someone whose long ago ancestors came from Italy or France be an anglo but now someone whose long ago ancestors came from Spain not be an anglo?
They certainly would be an Anglo. Why would a white English speaking person of several generation in America not be considered Anglo. And while we're at it, Spaniards are not Hispanic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute
Or what of the blue eyed blond whose parents came from Mexico but he speaks perfect English and if fully an American citizen? Why can't he be an "anglo" -- or why can't the dark skinned equivalent to him also be an "anglo"?
Most people would consider your first example as an Anglo.
I know a dark skinned person of Mexican descent who was brought up with Anglo parents in Ohio. He considers himself Anglo. He fully acknowledges that he is Mexican by blood and Anglo by culture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute
Or what of the menonitas who are fully Mexican citizens and live in Mexico - are they anglo? Often they speak no Engish at all - but they do speak Spanish and are Mexican. So are they anglo or hispanic?
They are neither Anglo nor Hispanic, but Allemanos (or Menonitas). Most of the Mennonites in Mexico that I have heard of speak German. No English and just enough Spanish to do business with their neighbors outside of their communities.
If their children started speaking Spanish, converted to Catholicism and revered the heroes and history of Mexico and adopted its traditions, then they would be Hispanics even if they were lily-white.
ok everyone this is what an anglo is efinitions of Anglo on the Web:
The term Anglo is used as a prefix to indicate a relation to the Angles, England or the English people, as in the terms Anglo-Saxon, Anglo ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo
An English person or person of English ancestry; In the United States, an American, esp. a White American, whose native language is English. ...
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/anglo
In Texas, New Mexico, and other areas of the United States with a large Hispanic or Mexican American populations, Anglo (from Anglo-Saxon) refers ...
americanhistory.si.edu/collections/mexicanamerica/glossary.html
Note in there the proper Spanish term for them - "Hispano". So in Spanish you have "Anglos" and "Hispanos". In English they would be presumably "Anglics" and "Hispanics", though "Anglics" has never gained much favor.
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but yeap i understand what you're saying about speaking english and anglo.
