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I agree and see white flight in NYC having had at least two waves:
1) White flight in the 60s-70s was the result of realtors steering middle class blacks to certain neighborhoods while simultaneously frightening the whites to move out. These neighborhoods were also the only ones for which blacks could get a mortgage aka "redlining." From these practices, NYC lost a huge percentage of its white, middle class stronghold. The blacks who replaced them were also middle class (i.e, they had enough income to buy houses and good enough credit to get mortgages). These were not the so-called "ghetto" blacks. There were no yuppies at this point in time and the neighborhoods affected (NEBronx, SEQueens, EFlatbush, etc.) have never gentrified.
2) The second wave began in 80s and shifted neighborhoods away from being working class/lower middle class white to yuppies and now, hipsters. The specific neighborhoods weren't necessarily "going down the tubes." However, there were overall quality of life issues in NYC that they wanted to escape. Anyway, those who owned homes stood to profit significantly and sold, or they moved away but continue rent out their homes. Those who did not own were forced out by rent increases, probably caused by the first wave of yuppies. Where did these white families go? My guess is Staten Island, NJ, Poconos, and Florida. Not surprisingly, the affected neighborhoods are exactly where yuppies/hipsters live today. Chelsea, Lower East Side/Alphabet City, Hell's Kitchen, SoHo, Astoria, LIC, Woodside, Sunnyside, Williamsburg, Carroll Gardens, Fort Greene, Cobble Hill, Boerum Hill, Park Slope.
2a) Gentrification in Harlem can be explained by its location -- on the island of Manhattan and it was ripe for development because of the large number of abandoned buildings following the 80s.
3) The third wave (going on now) involves the migration of immigrant groups (i.e., Asians, Russians, Hispanics, Indians, Africans, etc.) within the outer boroughs. This wave is more complicated but doesn't really involve yuppies or hipsters. It's more like wave one but hitting neighborhoods like Ozone Park, Maspeth, Ridgewood, Glendale, Bensonhurst, Sheepshead Bay, etc. and certain parts of the Bronx (sorry, I'm not too familiar with the Bx). Most of these neighborhoods are not "close in" and therefore have little interest to yuppies or hipsters ... until they're priced out of the neighborhoods in phase two!!!
WOW well put! I don't think we realized the powers of realtors, I mean they in essence contributed to the subprime mortgage crisis by creating artificial markets. We are to believe that gentrification is caused by supply and demand, may have not always been the case! Many times we talk about being priced out but by what means?
I'll be the first to put my own people on blast for ruining neighborhoods. Going back to my earlier post, wave #1 resulted in my parents -- middle class, black college grads -- buying a home from a white family in Queens (zip code 11413). The neighborhood became all black and was a wonderful, safe, crime-free place to live. However, during the 80s my own black people started selling crack and all of SEQueens was affected negatively. I make no excuses for them.
However, to put things in their proper perspective, Cambria Heights and Laurelton, Queens are examples of majority black communities that are not "stankin' ghetto trash black neighborhoods." Look up the income, education and employment stats right on this site for zip codes 11411, 11413 and 11422. They do rival a good number of more diverse neighborhoods in the City.
Last edited by queensgrl; 06-14-2010 at 09:04 AM..
Reason: clarification
The fact of the matter is, statistically speaking, the more WHITE a neighborhood is, the safer it is.
People feel funny mentioning it or talking about it in this PC society, but it's true. What needs to be addressed is, WHY is this the case, and HOW can it be changed?
Most white people root for black people to succeed.
The fact of the matter is, statistically speaking, the more WHITE a neighborhood is, the safer it is.
People feel funny mentioning it or talking about it in this PC society, but it's true. What needs to be addressed is, WHY is this the case, and HOW can it be changed?
Most white people root for black people to succeed.
YAY, and I agree with you
There is a relationship between race and crime but there also a relationship between crime and income/education. Think about it ... a majority minority neighborhood with high income/education, would generally have low crime. Conversely, a white neighborhood/town with low income/education could have high crime.
I studied this a while ago in econometrics, and did a regression analysis to see which factor (race/income/education) was the strongest but I can't remember the end result.
It's funny that people can get so worked up over what they perceive a yuppie to be and what they perceive a yuppie to value. Just because a person has more money than you, does not mean they are more materialistic than you. I see plenty of people that fall into the middle- lower income level carrying their LV and Coach bags. Perhaps they are fake bags. But that makes it even more sad! They are trying desperately to look like they could afford something they can't. And it's the yuppies who are shallow and materialistic?
Sure yuppies and hipsters are annoying and I'll be the first to admit I chuckle at them. BUT at least I can walk through their neighborhoods and feel safe. People talk about yuppies being rude. Know what I find rude? Car jacking, mugging, spraying graffiti on buildings, stealing hubcabs, etc. That's what I find rude. Yuppies, not so much. Sure they are in their own little world, but no more than any other person out there.
Thread reopened. PLEASE stay on topic, which is NOT why neighborhoods decayed in NYC. Thank you.
__________________
All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, his acts being seven ages.
~William Shakespeare (As You Like It Act II, Scene VII)
A little background on me. 29 years old, male, white, jewish/italian decent. Born and Raised, and currently live in Brooklyn New York.
I'm really having a hard time understanding why the majority of folks on this board and in real life that I encounter, truly dislke the yuppies.
Here me out on this. For starters, I am not a yuppie, but I have what some may call "yuppie traits"... I make over 100k a year, I have a house in literally the wealthiest part of brooklyn (not saying where), and I am well educated and successful in life. I appreciate the finer things in life, but they do not make me better than anyone here.
1. Yes the yuppies have a bit of a "nose in the air" attitude... Very true, they look down upon the rest, but if you are half way intelligent, they will treat you as equal. Let's face facts folks... we may not like their choices and lifestyles, but they are living the life.
2. Ok, yes They are a bit way into the whole artsy fartsy thing... I appreicate fine art, but I don't pop a boner when I see a painting or sculpture and I do not look down upon the rest if they cant, so call "appreciate the work." Still, who cares.
Those are truly my only two gripes with them, but I would rather have them around me, bringin up proerty value, having crime drop to 0% and actually affording my children the oppurutnity to get a "real education" in public school w/o having to worrya bout getting their lunch money taken away or beaten up, and rather then having to send them to private school (which is actually worse from a educational standpoint then public school.
I do visit park slope and the rest of that "section" of brooklyn, so I see them in action most of the times.
OK folks, so blast the cap open on this volcano. Please enlighten me on why they are so damn hated.
Thanks!
D
That is why they are so hated. They do not enjoy the finer things in life because they make pennies yet they still stick their nose in the air. $100k is not a lot. I am younger than you and net over $300k per year and I can not even afford the "finer things" in NYC yet so you are living a fake lifestyle. I can be as dumb as a rock and I can be as sharp as a tack depending on the issue at hand, but yuppies think they know everything and they think everybody who is not as smart as them are lesser human beings.
Your intelligence does not mean a thing as far as you being a good person. When you said "Very true, they look down upon the rest, but if you are half way intelligent, they will treat you as equal" that should make it obvious as to why they are so hated. I know plenty of construction workers who are not the brightest guys when it comes to book smarts but they are the nicest guys I have ever met in my life. They also have street smarts (something yuppies lack) which I place above book smarts.
I spent most of life in Brooklyn, except for a few years in the South, and now on LI. Having been around long enough to see the change in Brooklyn, I can definitely say I don't love yuppies or hate them, but they do have loveable/hateable qualities. Whatever the end result, they are not inherently malevolent.
For years i would not go anywhere near Park Slope. As a child, I thought it was crappy and scary, no offense to anyone. It's changed so much now, that even though I do get annoyed by seeing so many yuppies, it's a lot cleaner, neater, and safer than 25 years ago. Like an earlier poster, I have never drank coffee from a NY Starbucks, though I have in other states. But I'd rather have a Starbucks on the corner than a bodega with guys hanging out in front of it. As a girl who commuted to school between 1989 and 2002, I can say the change is for the most part very welcome.
That is why they are so hated. They do not enjoy the finer things in life because they make pennies yet they still stick their nose in the air. $100k is not a lot. I am younger than you and net over $300k per year and I can not even afford the "finer things" in NYC yet so you are living a fake lifestyle.
How could you NET >$300k per year and not afford "the finer things?" Do you have a family of 20 to feed? Even then, I can't see how you can't "afford" things. We're talking "finer" things, not $30 million mansion or a fleet of Rolls Royces.
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