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I think we all can understand the possibility of not being able to afford to live in "our" neighborhood. Just because I am higher income than some, does not mean I am not impacted also.
The bottom line is this: Why do you believe someone should live somewhere forever, at the price that is affordable to them regardless of what is happening in the real world? Heating bills gone up? Taxes skyrocketing? Repairs costing more? "NOT MY PROBLEM....I deserve to live here and I can't afford to pay anymore so too bad." And if you do try to get other people in the building you are racist, and gentrification blah blah blah. And I am supposed to have sympathy because? If I can't pay ever increasing expenses + mortgage because I can't get tenants into the building to pay for everything, guess what happens? The bank takes the building...that's the real world.
Hipsters, like the natives, need a place to live. If they want to live in Bushwick, so be it. If it inconveniences the "natives", or causes them stress...SO WHAT. Why is it their problem? Should everyone choose to live places based on convenience of others, or their own circumstances/needs/requirements/likes? Leave the Hipsters alone.
Life ain't fair..trust me I know! It isn't "your" neighborhood anymore than it is the person's who just moved in 2 weeks ago...you don't own NYC!
For my final response to the recent posts on this thread... @ Sobro, i'm assuming your small brain couldn't comprehend the fact that I was not talking about myself or how the current residents feel... I was referring to the previous ideas that many natives had that sharing a neighborhood with white folk damaged their reputation or terrified them due to rising rent costs... This was the main reason why 3-4 years ago I would see a higher percentage of white folks walking around montrose ave, morgan ave, and wyckoff ave than i do now...
This problem, while still very present, it is not what it used to be and people are finally beginning to accept living in these neighborhoods with other diverse neighbors and not running for the hills as many were doing a few years back... It's why the fad has stalled in these neighborhoods like Bushwick/East Will/Eastern Bed-stuy while based on what others say im assuming has picked up in other working class like (LIC/Astoria/Sunnyside/Elmhurst, Bensonhurst, Kensington, Bay Ridge, etc.) or for the rare few extremely desperate (Central Bushwick, Eastern Bed-stuy, Cypress Hills, Flatbush, Mott Haven, etc.)
And what reputation was damaged exactly? Explain to us small brained folks! People were running for the hills when white folk moved in? You are kidding right?
I don't see how any "fad" has changed. People continue to move into these neighborhoods...seeking an affordable place to live close to the city is not a fad, and in fact the speed is accelerating.
And what reputation was damaged exactly? Explain to us small brained folks! People were running for the hills when white folk moved in? You are kidding right?
I don't see how any "fad" has changed. People continue to move into these neighborhoods...seeking an affordable place to live close to the city is not a fad, and in fact the speed is accelerating.
Like i said, the fad has slowed in other areas where the crime rate spiked but has picked up steam in other areas where the fad is just beginning (i.e. Mott Haven)... When you live in your little bubble and don't venture out to Brooklyn or many other areas in the city, you'll see only what you want to see... As for me, I don't have blinders on, nor do i have a need to so I see the city for what it is... I don't look at the crime rate and say oh wow the murder rate is declining so that means the city is safe or at the same time do i say oh wow the murder rate is increasing but overall crime is down... when you look at the city with rose colored glasses then there's no way you can see anything wrong with it...
I look at the overall picture and what i'm telling you about reputation is very accurate and you would know of it if you actually spent any time talking to locals other than those who don't repulse you...
To a number of ignorant black and hispanic folk... living in a gentrifying area or an area that is becoming "whiter", means there hood isn't as hard as it used to be... And for many, that was a tipping point when they saw their hood being over-run by hipsters in neighborhoods like Southside or East Will... It's why the changes in demographics were so dramatic along the areas that bordered Northside of Williamsburg... However, what I'm saying now is that this ignorant mentality (while still around) is nowhere near as prevalent as it used to be and it's part of the reason why the dramatic shifts have stalled (notice i didn't say stopped but are simply in a lull right now for these areas)...
Again notice I wasn't speaking for your little bubble of Mott Haven... I'm talking about an area that I have far more knowledge about than you do...
So you are saying, the ignorant (and presumably low-income/destitute) people of color saw whites moving in, and made a conscious decision to pack up and leave because they didn't want to live in a "soft" area. You seriously believe that? The problem with this statement is that these people don't have the means to leave..or do much of anything for themselves for that matter...they were leaving because Landlords didn't renew leases and raised rents so they were forced to go. It had nothing to do with someone who is ignorant and broke deciding to move to East NY because it is more dangerous and black there.
The changes were so dramatic in Williamsburg because there were many wharehouses and vacant lots to quickly rebuild, and the demand kept coming and reinforced more people coming. This "dramatic shift" did not stop/stall because colored folks looked around and said "I am ok with living with whites" and therefore there were no more apts available..it was because the economy tanked, unemployment skyrocketed, money dried up, and the luxury condo bubble popped, with Williamsburg a poster child for it.
There is no bubble in my head or in Mott Haven...I don't even know why you bring that up. I have to give you an economics lesson on why the movement of people in and out of some neighborhoods has slowed....but in no way has it stopped, and it has ZERO to do with the destitute deciding they are ok with living amongst whites. Geez.
It is the Hipsters, whites, and working/middle class people of every color who are realizing it is OK to live among the destitute/low-income population because they don't have many affordable nabes to pick from anymore..so its these nabes or leave NYC...this is the decision people are making, and why many are moving into lower-income communities. And as the high end market continues to post record sales, the trickle down effect is impacting the wealthy all the way down to the working class...and people are continuing to seek affordable places to live. Once the economy picks up steam again, look to see the next major push even deeper.
So you are saying, the ignorant (and presumably low-income/destitute) people of color saw whites moving in, and made a conscious decision to pack up and leave because they didn't want to live in a "soft" area. You seriously believe that? The problem with this statement is that these people don't have the means to leave..or do much of anything for themselves for that matter...they were leaving because Landlords didn't renew leases and raised rents so they were forced to go. It had nothing to do with someone who is ignorant and broke deciding to move to East NY because it is more dangerous and black there.
The changes were so dramatic in Williamsburg because there were many wharehouses and vacant lots to quickly rebuild, and the demand kept coming and reinforced more people coming. This "dramatic shift" did not stop/stall because colored folks looked around and said "I am ok with living with whites" and therefore there were no more apts available..it was because the economy tanked, unemployment skyrocketed, money dried up, and the luxury condo bubble popped, with Williamsburg a poster child for it.
There is no bubble in my head or in Mott Haven...I don't even know why you bring that up. I have to give you an economics lesson on why the movement of people in and out of some neighborhoods has slowed....but in no way has it stopped, and it has ZERO to do with the destitute deciding they are ok with living amongst whites. Geez.
It is the Hipsters, whites, and working/middle class people of every color who are realizing it is OK to live among the destitute/low-income population because they don't have many affordable nabes to pick from anymore..so its these nabes or leave NYC...this is the decision people are making, and why many are moving into lower-income communities. And as the high end market continues to post record sales, the trickle down effect is impacting the wealthy all the way down to the working class...and people are continuing to seek affordable places to live. Once the economy picks up steam again, look to see the next major push even deeper.
This post made the most sense out of anything else you've posted on this thread... That being said, let me touch on a couple of points you made...
The first emboldened part of your statement is once again flat out racist... Who the hell said I was only talking about low-income people of color... I simply said that certain ignorant hispanic and black folk had this mentality... Ignorance is not limited to the poor... As we can see from some of your posts, it comes in all shapes, sizes, forms and income brackets... And those who had the means to leave before there neighborhood completely changed into something they couldn't handle, did so...
You can argue that point until you're blue in the face, but I know this from a number of people I spoke to that couldn't take living next to white folk in their neighborhood... We always talk about racism from the white man against the black or hispanic man but truth is, black and hispanic folk tend to be way more racist on average towards the white man than vice versa...
To the second emboldened part please stop engaging in hyperbole when using my words... My point about that was that the only rare cases where you see a person who resembles a hispter move into an area like a Cypress Hills, Central Bushwick, Eastern Bed-stuy or Flatbush, is because 1) they are DEAD BROKE (we agree on that part), and 2) Have been conned by real-estate agents due to their naive nature... It's unfortunate but it does happen as we see with Henna's case...
For much of the past century, Brooklyn was the Rodney Dangerfield of boroughs, known for its blue-collar style, for its funny accent and, of course, for getting no respect. Then came the brownstone homesteaders and the bohemian pioneers. They turned lunch-bucket warrens in Park Slope, Dumbo and Williamsburg into glamorous destinations, drawing a flood of well-schooled young men and women who were attracted by quaint yet affordable homes, outdoor cafes, bicycle lanes and the neighborhoods’ sometimes self-parodying artisanal, sustainable and locavore ethos.
Brooklyn somehow, against all odds, became an internationally recognized icon of cool.
The sudden physical and cultural transformation has been endlessly debated. Yet to many longtime residents in some of the borough’s unaffected corners — in the rough-edged and timeless Brooklyn that has endured in places like Gerritsen Beach, Marine Park, Sheepshead Bay, Brownsville and East New York — the renaissance is still being watched with amusement, nervousness and even dismay.
In these neighborhoods, rarely mentioned in the city’s tourist literature, some shrug off the re-branding of their home borough as so much tinsel or distant thunder having little to do with their lives, while others worry about being forgotten altogether. Still others express outright resentment that they have not enjoyed the fruits of Brooklyn’s more modish reputation. Shuttered factories in places like Dumbo remind them of lost jobs rather than the expensive lofts that beckon from glossy advertisements.
Click on the link at the top for the rest of the article.
Am I the only one who doesn't get it? Williamsburg is just nasty. It's full of hipsters all right, populated by grad students and interns. But it's a dump. And yet when I lived in Astoria, which is really nice in comparison, it was like .... ohhhh...you live in Queens...
While I don't doubt there are some people who prefer not to live around people who are different, there is no evidence to indicate people of color in NYC move out of neighborhoods when whites move in because they don't want to live around them. We know they typically leave due to "gentrification", but there isn't any evidence, besides anecdotal "I know a family who left who didn't want to live around whites", to assert that people of color are now ok with them and "gentrification" subsequently slowed/stalled. We know it was the economy that slowed the movement of people, and not people of color's comfort level with whites.
I think what really matters is whites comfort level living around typically low-income urban people of color. The realization that the image of the "black guy out to get whitey" is bogus (and always has been), and the vast majority of people in these communities are just living their lives, trying to get by. Now that the nonsensical fear is gone, all neighborhoods, primarily those within <30 mins of midtown/downtown are in play.
Am I the only one who doesn't get it? Williamsburg is just nasty. It's full of hipsters all right, populated by grad students and interns. But it's a dump. And yet when I lived in Astoria, which is really nice in comparison, it was like .... ohhhh...you live in Queens...
People are ridiculous
How is it a dump? Ive walked along bedford in N williamsburg, and its attractive, with an almost villagey atmosphere (in both senses) It may not have the quality price ratio of Astoria (I havent been to astoria since Gerald Ford was president) but I dont think its a dump.
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