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There's been a diminishing middle class in NYC (and America) since the late 1970's but now it seems accelerated. The growing social stratification of the city is getting worrisome and I read one study which says were at levels of inequality not seen since the turn of the century. One of the reasons I made the choice to rent in the burbs. Granted I live in an upper middle class suburb but for a lower COL than a comparable neighborhood in NYC (trendy Brooklyn or desirable Manhattan)
When I first heard the "Tale of Two Cities" phrase being used a few years ago I balked at it but it's true for Manhattan, much of Brooklyn and even some parts of Queens now. I'd say Staten Island, some neighborhoods in the Bronx and Eastern Queens are where middle class NYer's are (own a home and raise a family while saving every month is what I think of).
Though people are mentioning hierarchies within the middle class itself like upper, middle and lower middle class which confuses things a bit.... Forest Hills and Riverdale come to mind as 2 upper middle class areas of NYC. Though, class is hard to tack down since it's a matter a lot of complicated factors beside just income like for example entry level workers who are from middle class background but are earning min wage or are making $25-30k per year. What would they be classified as? That's a whole 'nother thread right there.
I wish I knew that in 2009 when I graduated... Actually, no one knew that the job market was going to change so drastically in terms of hiring requirements and dickishness by those who came before us. I have yet to work full time in either of the fields I have my two degrees in (Management and Marketing) and have survived only doing retail and freelance gigs.
College is one of the biggest scams going. They tell you in order to get a good job you need a degree so the young folks go and get one, graduate 26k in debt or more, then when applying for jobs they are then told that they have no real experience or based on the level of ones degree are overqualified. A degree is one of the most oversold products in America.
If you never had the academic talent for engineering, medical professions, or technology, then you are better off pursuing technical education for one of the skilled trades.
Last year I bought in 105k in earnings. I'm ex-military with a 2 year technical degree in mechanical systems. My wife has a degree in business with a minor in accounting and business law, I've made more per week then she has.
Unless you are career specific, know exactly what you want to be professionally, and had the academic performance in high school to justify the cost of going on to college, then you are wasting your money, will only graduate in debt if you make it that far, and you will ruin your credit when your income to debt ratio goes out of whack cause you have more out in student loans then what you are actually bringing in.
College can be without a doubt, one of the biggest scams going.
College is one of the biggest scams going. They tell you in order to get a good job you need a degree so the young folks go and get one, graduate 26k in debt or more, then when applying for jobs they are then told that they have no real experience or based on the level of ones degree are overqualified. A degree is one of the most oversold products in America.
$26k is really not bad for a degree. If you are going to work for a large corporation you absolutely need a degree, although it's not important that you go to a good school. The difference in career outcome is debatable when compared to extra costs over state school.
I think it's weird that you'll see NYU professor's occupying Wall Street, and then go back and charging unconscionable amounts of money for fine arts degrees. I know they have a good business and law school, but the majority of graduates have useless degrees that cost $250k.
College is one of the biggest scams going. They tell you in order to get a good job you need a degree so the young folks go and get one, graduate 26k in debt or more, then when applying for jobs they are then told that they have no real experience or based on the level of ones degree are overqualified. A degree is one of the most oversold products in America.
If you never had the academic talent for engineering, medical professions, or technology, then you are better off pursuing technical education for one of the skilled trades.
Last year I bought in 105k in earnings. I'm ex-military with a 2 year technical degree in mechanical systems. My wife has a degree in business with a minor in accounting and business law, I've made more per week then she has.
Unless you are career specific, know exactly what you want to be professionally, and had the academic performance in high school to justify the cost of going on to college, then you are wasting your money, will only graduate in debt if you make it that far, and you will ruin your credit when your income to debt ratio goes out of whack cause you have more out in student loans then what you are actually bringing in.
College can be without a doubt, one of the biggest scams going.
I think you are pushing your own personal experiences too hard here. I have a friend who studied business and is an executive at an investment bank. I've had other friends who studied economics who work in banking. I've known people with humanities degrees who went to law school and are doing well as lawyers.
Not everyone who makes a lot of money works as an engineer, or in medicine, or in technology.
There are a lot of factors that weigh in to who ends up being a success, and many of them are a bit too complex to really explore on a site like this.
Meryl Streep for example has a masters in drama for Yale and most engineers will never make what she has made. Most of our recent presidents have had undergraduate political science degrees, and after than have gone to law school.
Many people who didn't know what they wanted to be professionally when they got their degrees changed course and ended up doing quite well.
You're making statements that are far too broad, partially because you've a huge lack of awareness of the many different career paths out there. A person who wants to be a politician is not better off skilled trades. Big companies like Google and Apple do not hire all engineers. They have lawyers,marketing, accountants, human resources, and sales people (among other skill sets and departments) and people with other skills/knowledge bases that are not engineers. A person who wants to be a banker, work in advertising, film, tv, media, insurance, the hotel industry, the overall hospitality industry, etc. Not all jobs or all companies have to do with engineering. I'm sorry I'm appalled by the utter ignorance of the above post! Mayor de Blasio, former Mayor Bloomberg, former Mayor Giuliani (since this is the NYC forum) are examples of very successful educated people who do not have engineering degrees yet they RAN the nation's biggest city!
I think you are pushing your own personal experiences too hard here. I have a friend who studied business and is an executive at an investment bank. I've had other friends who studied economics who work in banking. I've known people with humanities degrees who went to law school and are doing well as lawyers.
Not everyone who makes a lot of money works as an engineer, or in medicine, or in technology.
There are a lot of factors that weigh in to who ends up being a success, and many of them are a bit too complex to really explore on a site like this.
Meryl Streep for example has a masters in drama for Yale and most engineers will never make what she has made. Most of our recent presidents have had undergraduate political science degrees, and after than have gone to law school.
Many people who didn't know what they wanted to be professionally when they got their degrees changed course and ended up doing quite well.
You're making statements that are far too broad, partially because you've a huge lack of awareness of the many different career paths out there. A person who wants to be a politician is not better off skilled trades. Big companies like Google and Apple do not hire all engineers. They have lawyers,marketing, and sales people and people with other skills/knowledge bases. A person who wants to be a banker, work in advertising, film, tv, media, insurance, the hotel industry, the overall hospitality industry, etc. Not all jobs or all companies have to do with engineering. I'm sorry I'm appalled by the utter ignorance of the above post! Mayor de Blasio, former Mayor Bloomberg, former Mayor Giuliani (since this is the NYC forum) are examples of very successful educated people who do not have engineering degrees yet they RAN the nation's biggest city!
$26k is really not bad for a degree. If you are going to work for a large corporation you absolutely need a degree, although it's not important that you go to a good school. The difference in career outcome is debatable when compared to extra costs over state school.
I think it's weird that you'll see NYU professor's occupying Wall Street, and then go back and charging unconscionable amounts of money for fine arts degrees. I know they have a good business and law school, but the majority of graduates have useless degrees that cost $250k.
It depends on the position and the company. In certain lower to middle income positions they would actually prefer the candidate have graduated from the state school as those from expensive schools are seen as more ambitious (they'll quit the job in an instant as soon as something better comes through). Of course for certain higher paying jobs in certain industries going to a top school can matter more, or if you are going into politics.
Let me tell you something. I've bern to college, worked in a skilled trade, and served my country. I've lived east coast, west coast, and in Europe, I'm well aware of what's out there.
And if you think liberal politicians are something to look up to then you obviously may not be as aware as you think you are either.
Very few people college educated or otherwise will ever get get a chance to run a big city or become a Washington DC politician. Most of those people wee connected since birth and were already placed into that path from the generations and family trees before.
Meryl Streep is a famous actress which is why she makes the money she does, go ask the fine arts major working at Starbucks for 12.50 an hour, I would bet they would have a different story to tell.
NYC is doing better than ever, you've massive amounts of investment in real estate all around the city and you've expansion in some sectors like tech, hospitality, film, tv, etc.
Btw, as a rule people with engineering and science degrees do not run cities, states, or governments anywhere in the world.
Let me tell you something. I've bern to college, worked in a skilled trade, and served my country. I've lived east coast, west coast, and in Europe, I'm well aware of what's out there.
And if you think liberal politicians are something to look up to then you obviously may not be as aware as you think you are either.
Very few people college educated or otherwise will ever get get a chance to run a big city or become a Washington DC politician. Most of those people wee connected since birth and were already placed into that path from the generations and family trees before.
Meryl Streep is a famous actress which is why she makes the money she does, go ask the fine arts major working at Starbucks for 12.50 an hour, I would bet they would have a different story to tell.
Dude, in small towns across the country there are people with liberal arts who work as professors, teachers, LAWYERS (yes, people who have liberal arts degrees in the middle of the country still become lawyers). Last I checked even small towns have mayors and local governments, and last I checked all states have states governments. A lot of office staff (paralegals, administrative assistants, various workers in operations have liberal arts degrees too).
You are simply appalling ignorant as to the job opportunities out there.
As for the big city jobs, this is the NYC FORUM! Presumably most of us here are concerned about what goes in NEW YORK CITY! DUH! And yes, there are plenty of liberal arts people and non engineering people who are multimillionaires or billionaires. I just named some of our majors, but the wealthy people here by and large ARE NOT engineers (some of them are, but this is far from the majority).
Your background in the military and where you went while in the military are absolutely irrelevant to the career paths that are out there. I honestly wouldn't have said anything at all, but here you are presenting absurd nonsense as inarguable fact!
Btw, being born into a wealthy family ALWAYS increases your opportunities, for rather very obvious reasons.
Of course, there are a fair number of poor people who do raise up to the top, due to either being extremely talented or lucky. Bill Clinton didn't come from generations in Washington. Neither did Hillary or Barack. But they had good educations from great universities, they had social skills, and the intelligence to make something on what they had in knew.
Different people will and should study whatever they want to, as it is up to them to decide what path in life that they chose to go. Speak for yourself, in your extremely very limited worldview and knowledge base.
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