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You are discounting the importance of peer group and competition. The attitudes that children hold about their schools and about work are affected by their peer group relationships, which in turn affect the whole organization of the class. It is one of the main reasons advocates push for more integrated schools.
It's also one of the reasons why I want a good school. It's about the peer influence because there's little difference between what is taught at an above average school and a high performing one. Same can be said about a top private college vs an okay public college. And at crappy schools there is literally zero competition. So much so that now the focus is on tracking the percentage that passes instead of how they perform. Another advantage of going to schools in better neighborhoods is that I also learn from other parents. From talking to other parents I learn everything the best/cheapest places for swimming lessons to even where my kids can learn Chinese for only a few hundred bucks a semester. I also can get advice that I can trust on how to discipline my kids when they misbehave that doesn't involve beating the crap out of them.
The other thing is, wherever your kid goes to school, so long as he or she blows the average kid out of the water he will be fine.
Being average doesn't get your far, whether it's in the city or in the suburbs.
Poor people going to crappy schools don't know that. Back then all the standardized tests were about percentiles. In crappy schools the kid that gets 90% is considered extremely smart. In the bigger scheme of things that means jack s**t. But now with the internet hopefully parents or the kids themselves find time looking about what jobs pay and what kind of education credentials are actually needed as well as the prep work that needs to be done to pass the interviews (e.g.. I've encountered articles recently on how kids that are already in good schools start prepping for FANG interviews as soon as their freshman year). Growing up before the age of the internet I used to believe that mailmen made a lot of money and working at mcdonalds was a good job because that was what I was told.
Because Black and Hispanic kids, activists said, were disproportionately placed in these courses, while why kids were disproportionately placed on the college track courses. So they got rid of all the courses that directly prepped kids for things like working class jobs.
In a number of countries around the world, they still do teach these courses. Those who score well go on a college prep track, and those who score poorly go on the courses that prepare one for working class jobs. I'm think of China, Japan, Korea, Germany and other European nations, etc.
This is so true about the other countries. They can get away doing that because there's no racial gap and the poor I think are content with being given the opportunity to rise up.
As for the those vocational training classes, since it was before my time, if those classes were disproportionately given to blacks how come most of the high paid union workers I see are white? Also I see an overrepresented amount of eletrician/plumbing/heating/a.c. vans in Manhattan with SI addresses.
NYC Specialized Public Schools aren't really 'public' schools.
They're magnet schools for gifted and/or ambitious kids.
The demographics of skin color aren't nearly as important as the demographics of-
Two parent household.
Median income of school/attendance zone.
Hours spent on academics outside of school.
Highest education level of family member in household.
All this other race baiting statistics just showcases what people already know.
There's economical differences in ethnicities in NYC, and one ethnic group by and large found a way to overcome it.
If you're referring to Asians then I'd have to give credit to where credit's due. One of the "benefits" of being socially shunned and the butt of jokes is that all the people at the top of the social pyramid will not accept you for who you are, of course there are always exceptions. But little did the cool kids in crappy schools know that they had the social pyramid turned the wrong way. Put another way Asians weren't influenced by the ghetto behavior of other ethnic groups because the ghetto kids were busy hurling insults their way. Of course same can be said of nerdy looking kids within the same ethnic group. But Asians as an entire race was socially shunned and made fun of at crappy schools.
If you're referring to Asians then I'd have to give credit to where credit's due. One of the "benefits" of being socially shunned and the butt of jokes is that all the people at the top of the social pyramid will not accept you for who you are, of course there are always exceptions. But little did the cool kids in crappy schools know that they had the social pyramid turned the wrong way. Put another way Asians weren't influenced by the ghetto behavior of other ethnic groups because the ghetto kids were busy hurling insults their way. Of course same can be said of nerdy looking kids within the same ethnic group. But Asians as an entire race was socially shunned and made fun of at crappy schools.
Sometimes I think it best to move to another part of the country to raise children that can enjoy a more relaxed and welcoming learning environment. The competitive nature of NYC brings out the worse in people. You have poor students with huge chips on their shoulder on one side and affluent people who treat their kids like “designer handbags” to enhance their social status on the other side. It feels like such an uptight place to raise children.
Asian's bully just as much as any other ethnic group. The former principal of P.S. 184 got in trouble for being too Chinese. The new principal received death threats from the Chinese community as they supported the previous principal.
You're too stuck on creating your childhood. I found all of my recent places to stay on the internet. Everyone knows about Craigslist. Wanna know how to find a place to stay? Out in the street people can give you leads.
At a certain level a person has to be able to figure something out in their own, assuming the person isn't intellectually impaired/disabled. Any literate person of normal intelligence can fill in blanks in a lease, sign and date it. It's no teachers job to teach those things.
The people who do help people fill out applications work in social services mostly or remedial Ed at community college.
Btw, unless the person is a total crackhead, generally when dealing with white people it's assumed people know how to fill out applications. Don't sell yourself short in claiming that inner city kids have to be taught in school how to fill in the blanks.
I hear you but then why is Internet not more integrated into the schools then? Big deal we get his HW online.
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
When I was in Far Rockaway HS (late 1990s) I had a home economics class. The one thing I remember from that class was they taught us how to balance a check book. I don't even own personal checks nowadays. But I always remembered that one time in class they taught us how to balance a check book because it was prepping us for the real world. I've heard stories about how NYC public high schools in the '60s and '70s had advanced home ec, like they taught you how to make minor repairs in your home and stuff.......nothing like that exists today in the public school system......bring home ec back! The car can't drive without gas, your child's brain being the car and positive influence being the gas.......these kids need something to do, school should be the place where you get liberated, and learn HOW to think instead of WHAT to think, but humans ruin everything!
I tend to agree. Ideally, parents should teach kids basic skills, but a lot of adults don't know how to do some basic things for themselves and/or don't have time to teach these things to their kids -- specifically I'm thinking of basic home repair and sewing, but I was also surprised that my kids haven't had a typing class - they are supposed to know the correct way to type (but don't). These days, typing fast will make their lives much easier for sure. We had to take shop, home ec and typing, how to balance a checkbook too when I was in school...
I mean on topics like school it's especially concerning for me because I live on an area with great schools except high schools, and any change in policy would be to my detriment. As busy working parents we already have enough stuff to worry about and don't need additional B.S. from people with no skin in the game dictating our lives especially when I have personal experience going to crappy schools. My wife has been nagging me to move out of NYC for a while now and growing up here I want to stay as much as possible. I already promised her that we would work on buying another house in the burbs if needed, but i still want to keep a property in Queens. Many of her friends have already shunned NYC as an option because of the high schools. A lot of these shenanigans just means that we need to move out of NYC.
Even without policy changes, I see these Stuy kids taking the LIRR home almost everyday when I leave work, and think about all the time wasted commuting everyday just to go to a good high school. These kids probably take the LIRR at 7 in the morning and dont come home till sometime after 6 all just to go to a good school. If we actually had a good high school in the neighborhood like the burbs, which was the case pre-Bloomberg, it would make our lives much easier. It's certainly serious stuff to think about if you have options as a parent in NYC especially being property owners like us. And like I said most parents leave NYC because of this. It's strange when the only people you know that lives in NYC with kids in the office are blacks and East Asians excluding those who can afford private school or choose the Catholic school route. That many educated people making the same decision can't be dumb right? Meanwhile i have one foot out the door with my wife pulling me to leave. If I tell her about the middle school unzoning she would literally freak out. Since she didn't grew up in NYC, the typical higher iincome Chinese response/reason to staying in NYC with kids of "I went to crappy schools look how I turned out" doesn't work on her.
After having gone through the HS application process with both my kids, in retrospect I think that as long as their parents are involved in the process, decently prepared kids have a pretty good chance of getting into a good high school, although yes they may have to travel to get there. Kids without decent grades and test scores have a pretty bad chance of getting into a good high school. Anyway, I don't remember the exact statistics, but I think that most kids get into one of their first choices.
De blasio doesn't want to touch the subject, but is being pushed to put out a half measured plan due to election season and the vocal advocacy groups within his voting base.
I think DeBlasio's specifically looking to integrate only certain districts (those with a certain amount of diversity but whose schools are still segregated). Many districts don't even have much diversity to begin with, so they can't be integrated without travelling. In my opinion, the city should try to encourage residential economic diversity however they can. Without residential diversity, school integration is really a pie in the sky goal.
I tend to agree. Ideally, parents should teach kids basic skills, but a lot of adults don't know how to do some basic things for themselves and/or don't have time to teach these things to their kids -- specifically I'm thinking of basic home repair and sewing, but I was also surprised that my kids haven't had a typing class - they are supposed to know the correct way to type (but don't). These days, typing fast will make their lives much easier for sure. We had to take shop, home ec and typing, how to balance a checkbook too when I was in school...
I had to take a typing class in high school......I think it was mandatory for me as I was in the Business House.
And Far Rock had a great nursing program, people used to use that as a boost to work at St. Johns, but now - forget it! NYC public school was not as bad as many make it out to be! And I've been to public and private, I see the benefit of both - I was just fortunate enough to get a nice mix........
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
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