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Which is exactly why the people in the lower Hudson Valley would block new commuter lines, if the MTA could even get the money together to do this. Why should their quality of life be destroyed for NYC? Why should their environment be ruined because of NYC?
If NYC has population overflow those people can leave the region or the city could further developer underutilized areas (South Bronx, Jamaica, East New York, etc).
I could definitely see this, and I feel you on the incentive to mention it
Realistically, Jamaica, ENY, and the entire Bronx are largely filled with Blue Collar workers who would be displaced by that, and also - the long distance commuters we are speaking of are not quite so interested in Jamaica, or ENY, and certainly not the Bronx but fvvk it - it's worth a try no?
Fact of the matter is all the good jobs in the city are largely filled by non NYC residents (NJ, NYS, or PA or CT commuters), and especially by non NYC natives from Big Ten schools in the midwest...
But hey WTF do I know? I can't knock the firms for hiring those people, if they're the ones who are qualified, but itd be nice to fill out those parts of the city versus having all the talent elsewhere
I could definitely see this, and I feel you on the incentive to mention it
Realistically, Jamaica, ENY, and the entire Bronx are largely filled with Blue Collar workers who would be displaced by that, and also - the long distance commuters we are speaking of are not quite so interested in Jamaica, or ENY, and certainly not the Bronx but fvvk it - it's worth a try no?
Fact of the matter is all the good jobs in the city are largely filled by non NYC residents (NJ, NYS, or PA or CT commuters), and especially by non NYC natives from Big Ten schools in the midwest...
But hey WTF do I know? I can't knock the firms for hiring those people, if they're the ones who are qualified, but itd be nice to fill out those parts of the city versus having all the talent elsewhere
Those blue collar workers in Jamaica, ENY, Bronx or whatever are *ahem* minorities then you can forget them being "displaced" by moving to various upstate areas. Again peeps have seen what happened to Poconos and other areas where a large influx of former "urban" residents fled to, and don't want it happening in their back yards.
From Westchester and beyond many areas have zoning that pretty much means homes on large plots of land, no apartments and usually away from any shopping or whatever. If you want to go anywhere you drive. Obama was trying to bust the suburbs, but it looks as if HUD under Trump has backed off.
Have several old school people with second homes in Poconos in my street. They all are appalled and disgusted by what has happened to that area over past decade or so. No one wants that hot mess exported to their area.
^
On the east and west sides of the Hudson north of Poughkeepsie and Newburgh, there are vast amounts of undeveloped land that is not parkland (likely still agricultural.) There are existing rail lines on either side of the river that could be upgraded to high speed commuter lines. New stations could be built and/or existing ones upgraded. These could run express trains into both GCT and Penn Station. At the upstate station, east/west light rail feeder lines could run into the express stations, which would be much cheaper to build than downstate would be, because they'd run through largely empty land.
Who is going to pay for acquiring all that "empty land"?
If you think upstate land owners are just going to lay down and give a RR their property and or grant easements for ROW, then I suggest you think again.
By who and how? They're trying to avoid the huge prices and taxes of the closer suburbs. If anyone is getting jerked it's those closer in. But they know the deal, and chose to accept it.
They're jerking themselves really. There's no way a commute like that is sustainable. You pay either way - with money or with time, nothing is free
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
I was one of those extreme commuters from 2005-2006.
I was just out of grad school and I had a new poistion. I moved in with my parents who lived in Philly and my job was in downtown Brooklyn. I didn't have the money to move into a place just yet by then.
So I had to be to work by 9am and I used the Chinese buses from Philly to NYC as the cheapest way. I usually had to be up by 530am everyday. SO I would drive from Philly to Olney Station...take the bus downtown to Chinatown in Philly, and usually get down there between 6 and 630.
By then I caught the bus, went from Chinatown to East Broadway in about 2 hours, and by then it was 8-830am. After that I took the train to downtown brooklyn and barely got into work by about 9-915am.
By this time...I was into a 3-4 hour commute and still had a full work day ahead of me.
After work (roughly 5pm) I then did the reverse...caught the subway F to East Broadway, then caught the bus by about 530. The bus would exit out of the Holland Tunnel and get stuck in an hour of Traffic.
Then it took about 1-2 hours on I95 back to Chinatown in Philly.
by then it was about 730pm (2.5 hours in the commute so far). Then I got on the train, went back to Olney Station which took roughly 30 minutes. Then I walked to my car, and drove about 15 minutes back to my parents house.
I ate dinner, watched TV for about an hour or two...and then went to bed by roughly 11pm to do it all over again by about 530.
Door to door it was roughly 3.5 hours each way (totaling 7-8 hours) 5x a week and it was a nightmare.
Some days I dealt with it, other days it was complete misery. I did this for about 6-8 months until I could save up for a place in Staten Island.
I rather live with the whole family in a 1 bedroom in Brooklyn. Than commute 3 hours each way.
Exactly, no work-life balance, who wants to spend 6 hours of their day on transit....for all of that, you can get a job in Florida and fly down every day
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
Those blue collar workers in Jamaica, ENY, Bronx or whatever are *ahem* minorities then you can forget them being "displaced" by moving to various upstate areas. Again peeps have seen what happened to Poconos and other areas where a large influx of former "urban" residents fled to, and don't want it happening in their back yards.
From Westchester and beyond many areas have zoning that pretty much means homes on large plots of land, no apartments and usually away from any shopping or whatever. If you want to go anywhere you drive. Obama was trying to bust the suburbs, but it looks as if HUD under Trump has backed off.
Have several old school people with second homes in Poconos in my street. They all are appalled and disgusted by what has happened to that area over past decade or so. No one wants that hot mess exported to their area.
Okay point made my friend, but - It was more about the people from the extreme commute exurbs taking over Jamaica and ENY not the other way around
Okay point made my friend, but - It was more about the people from the extreme commute exurbs taking over Jamaica and ENY not the other way around
People who made that move to "extreme" commuting areas already knew about ENY, Jamaica, etc... and chose to go elsewhere by and large.
Many families being displaced out of west/south Brooklyn (Park Slope, Clinton Hill, etc....) probably could have moved further east and found something, but for many there simply is a limit to how far they'd move in that direction.
New York Times did a feature about this several months ago. Families ended up in NJ or Westchester (or beyond), after leaving Brooklyn.
I don't have sympathy for these people.. if they can't afford NYC, too bad. :P
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