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Old 03-11-2020, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
25,368 posts, read 37,089,626 times
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Campus states? You mean educated people, right, as opposed to knuckle dragging high school dropouts wearing red caps (aka Trump's base.?)
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Old 03-11-2020, 08:24 AM
 
Location: New York
1,186 posts, read 967,275 times
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Given the fact that so many people are now apparently conflating socialism and communism I don't think most Americans even understand the difference between Right wing and Left wing, aside from whatever talking points are fed to them via the media source of choice. And the media often chooses to conflate them for an expected reaction, knowing full well that many consumers of their information can't tell the difference.
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Old 03-11-2020, 07:07 PM
 
6,222 posts, read 3,603,973 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladlensky View Post
Given the fact that so many people are now apparently conflating socialism and communism I don't think most Americans even understand the difference between Right wing and Left wing, aside from whatever talking points are fed to them via the media source of choice. And the media often chooses to conflate them for an expected reaction, knowing full well that many consumers of their information can't tell the difference.
Socialism is just communism lite. Most socialists seem to support communism anyway
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Old 03-12-2020, 06:48 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
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Marx and Lenin. arguably the two main proponents of communism, DESPISED socialism as a sellout.
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Old 03-12-2020, 08:53 AM
 
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They despised socialism because it gave power to the people, not the government. FYI, if you support communism, you're a communist, not a socialist. But this kind of ignorance is to be expected from people who didn't grow up in a campus state and learn all their political history on Fox News.
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Old 03-12-2020, 08:56 AM
 
Location: New York
1,186 posts, read 967,275 times
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Originally Posted by Foamposite View Post
Socialism is just communism lite. Most socialists seem to support communism anyway
I disagree, they are vastly different. For one, communism supports the violent overthrow of the government and complete public ownership of personal property whereas socialism does not and - realistically - modern socialism almost always exists in tandem with free-market capitalism (the 'social democracy' that people point to in the Nordic countries).

I do not personally know of any socialists that support communist ideology but maybe we travel in different circles. Most people who advocate for the socialization of services do so within their existing democratic (and usually free market capitalist) system and do not advocate for violent revolution to achieve it.

The word communism often evokes a very negative reaction in people (as it should, arguably) which is why the media and politicians like to conflate it with socialism in order to achieve the desired result. It works because - as I stated earlier - most people don't know the difference, they just hear both and think "BAD". It would be equally disingenuous for me to try and tell people that free market capitalism is basically fascism lite to get a similar reaction.
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Old 03-12-2020, 09:16 AM
 
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Ever notice that these "Democratic Socialist" always point to the Scandinavia as examples. But when they vacation or Honeymoon it's always to the old USSR, Cuba and Nicaragua.
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Old 03-12-2020, 03:03 PM
 
4,757 posts, read 3,368,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC refugee View Post
They despised socialism because it gave power to the people, not the government. FYI, if you support communism, you're a communist, not a socialist. But this kind of ignorance is to be expected from people who didn't grow up in a campus state and learn all their political history on Fox News.
This!
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Old 03-12-2020, 03:06 PM
 
4,757 posts, read 3,368,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladlensky View Post
I disagree, they are vastly different. For one, communism supports the violent overthrow of the government and complete public ownership of personal property whereas socialism does not and - realistically - modern socialism almost always exists in tandem with free-market capitalism (the 'social democracy' that people point to in the Nordic countries).

I do not personally know of any socialists that support communist ideology but maybe we travel in different circles. Most people who advocate for the socialization of services do so within their existing democratic (and usually free market capitalist) system and do not advocate for violent revolution to achieve it.

The word communism often evokes a very negative reaction in people (as it should, arguably) which is why the media and politicians like to conflate it with socialism in order to achieve the desired result. It works because - as I stated earlier - most people don't know the difference, they just hear both and think "BAD". It would be equally disingenuous for me to try and tell people that free market capitalism is basically fascism lite to get a similar reaction.

Spot on! It's pretty sad tbh. It shows that people believe anything they watch on t.v. and that intellectual curiosity is non-existent.
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Old 03-12-2020, 04:31 PM
 
6,222 posts, read 3,603,973 times
Reputation: 5060
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladlensky View Post
I disagree, they are vastly different. For one, communism supports the violent overthrow of the government and complete public ownership of personal property whereas socialism does not and - realistically - modern socialism almost always exists in tandem with free-market capitalism (the 'social democracy' that people point to in the Nordic countries).

I do not personally know of any socialists that support communist ideology but maybe we travel in different circles. Most people who advocate for the socialization of services do so within their existing democratic (and usually free market capitalist) system and do not advocate for violent revolution to achieve it.

The word communism often evokes a very negative reaction in people (as it should, arguably) which is why the media and politicians like to conflate it with socialism in order to achieve the desired result. It works because - as I stated earlier - most people don't know the difference, they just hear both and think "BAD". It would be equally disingenuous for me to try and tell people that free market capitalism is basically fascism lite to get a similar reaction.
But the Nordic countries are not socialist, and are clearly to the right of what even the DSA wants. Those countries also have closed borders and a small, homogenous population.
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