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China is actively concealing the real numbers. No one outside the CCP hierarchy will ever know what they really are.
India and pretty much all the African countries don't have the medical infrastructure to actually generate any useful statistics. People are likely dying is significant number without that fact registering in any official way (which I suspect is just fine with the governments in question.)
Even in the US and EU, the numbers are squishier than we'd like to think. But at least we have some infrastructure to try and generate useful statistics.
So you paint the whole of Africa with its 54 countries and India with its millions of doctors and IT people with one broad brush?
Would be like someone saying that all the NY and NJ stats are fake because of the Mafia and Wall Street scammers infiltrating hospitals. Plus Medicare or Medicaid Covid payoffs to a few large hospitals to fudge the stats in the elderly other cause deaths.
The current head of WHO is an Ethiopian and South African hospitals have made world leading breakthroughs for decades. Including the first ever human heart transplant.
Would be funny if Africans are at this very moment saying the same about NY/NJ stats as you are saying about their stats!
So you paint the whole of Africa with its 54 countries and India with its millions of doctors and IT people with one broad brush?
Would be like someone saying that all the NY and NJ stats are fake because of the Mafia and Wall Street scammers infiltrating hospitals. Plus Medicare or Medicaid Covid payoffs to a few large hospitals to fudge the stats in the elderly other cause deaths.
The current head of WHO is an Ethiopian and South African hospitals have made world leading breakthroughs for decades. Including the first ever human heart transplant.
Would be funny if Africans are at this very moment saying the same about NY/NJ stats as you are saying about their stats!
Your average American (still in 2020) believes Africa is just a giant country of barefoot black people with nose rings, or if they don't they give each individual country so little importance (with little ability to put countries on a map a no knowledge of each country's demographics and economy and politics) than it just becomes "Africa".
China is manipulating data to lower it's number.
India has a rapidly mounting death toll, so it remains to be seen how far it goes.
With Africa, there are two possibilities. Either a lot of deaths go unreported (highly likely) or there is a lack of international travel to a lot of places, in a way safeguarding many countries (also likely).
3.7 billion population versus 20 million population. Yet fewer Covid-19 deaths in the former.
Manipulation is maybe in NY and several other US states rather than in China and Africa?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident
The obvious is as follows:
China is manipulating data to lower it's number.
India has a rapidly mounting death toll, so it remains to be seen how far it goes.
With Africa, there are two possibilities. Either a lot of deaths go unreported (highly likely) or there is a lack of international travel to a lot of places, in a way safeguarding many countries (also likely).
3.7 billion population versus 20 million population. Yet fewer Covid-19 deaths in the former.
Manipulation is maybe in NY and several other US states rather than in China and Africa?
Oh, maybe! Maybe Northern Italy and Central Spain were in on it, too. Maybe it was all a simulation. Maybe you’re having a fever dream from last night’s welsh rarebit. Maybe I’m your father, and I’m disappointed in you, Billy, and it’s time for you to come home. Maybe!
to everyone who thinks that china's numbers are fabricated, I have to ask why.
is it because all you hear is the media and politician propaganda about how you can't trust the chinese gov't?
have you personally been there to witness firsthand if life is really oppressive under the "communist regime"?
the thing about east asian culture and countries is that they value the community over the individual and will sacrifice for the good of the collective. do you believe the numbers from taiwan, SK, HK, japan?
if you believe that masks can prevent the spread of the virus, and 99.9% of their population are donning masks and following medical guidelines, then why wouldn't you believe the numbers.
and it goes beyond masks and hand sanitizers. these are the extreme measures they went through to try and stop the spread.
Hopefully this has been mentioned by now already but India and most African countries lack testing & tracking abilities so whatever data that they put out is guaranteed to not portray the full extent of what's occurring.
These countries are mostly very poor, have very crowded cities, poor sanitation and folks very rarely have the ability to work from home - so it wouldn't shock me if the virus is circulating like wildfire there. It only takes one person to introduce it to a new population. The average age is pretty young so the percentage of people showing symptoms or dying is probably very low.
Last edited by OceanDude; 06-27-2020 at 08:02 PM..
Are you aware that hospitals were/are incentivised to declare cause of death as "Covid" because they get more federal money? If someone dies from Covid on a ventilator it's even more money.
There are many doctors around the US coming our saying that something isn't right and they are being forced to sign death certificate a certain way to show Covid was the cause of death when they don't agree. Hospital administration is forcing them.
These are real stories and not fantasy. Easily verifiable (if you want) but you probably won't research it.
Now every thing else you said about flu or whatever, I never said. Don't put words in my mouth.
I have a friend who has asthma so first thing he did he took a covid test it came back negative but then he had an asthma attack so he went to hospital for treatment as usual when the nurse gave him and others people their release papers from hospital it said covid related asthma attack which is BS there was about five others making a big stink about it!! They made such big stink only when they threaten to go the press that head doctor or what ever this person was change the papers!!
China + India + Africa = 30,000 Covid-19 deaths with 3.7 billion population.
New York State = 31,000 Covid-19 deaths with 19.5 million population.
New York City = 22,000 Covid-19 deaths with 8.4 million population.
Fishy numbers.
You can't have this conversation without the stats on excess deaths. Those countries are not recording accurate counts, you have to look at the excess over 5 year average deaths to get the real number and then you can compare to US excess deaths
Different countries record COVID-19 deaths different ways
If people die at home the death often goes unrecorded
If the COVID-19 exacerbated other conditions which then lead to death one country might record it as a COVID-19 death and another might not
Look at this data form Worldometer, scroll down to the countries chart look at the 4th column from the right
Anti-Vax Doctor Promotes Conspiracy Theory That Death Certificates Falsely Cite COVID-19
In the midst of an unprecedented global coronavirus pandemic that has killed hundreds of thousands of people worldwide, it can be hard to make sense of the destruction COVID-19 has wrought. In this context, the proliferation of conspiracy theories downplaying the dangers of the virus is sadly unsurprising, though disheartening and dangerous nonetheless.
One such theory making the rounds on social media is the idea that death certificates have been knowingly manipulated by medical examiners to inflate the number of COVID-19 deaths, part of a larger right-wing talking point that the government is using the pandemic as an excuse to infringe on American rights.
The claim that COVID-19 is being cited as the primary cause of death to inflate the overall death count, this appears to be based on the idea that CDC guidelines indicate that medical examiners should list COVID-19 as the underlying cause of death in instances wherein victims have had other conditions, such as hypertension or COPD (which make them more susceptible to COVID-19 complications to begin with).
Current CDC guidelines are “to list COVID-19 as the underlying cause of death, because it was the disease which initiated the chain of events that directly lead to death,” explains Dr. Sally Aiken, president of the National Association of Medical Examiners (NAME), who says she has received a slew of media requests on the subject over the past week. “[The] idea is that without these conditions, the outcome may have been different.” Other underlying conditions are listed elsewhere on the death certificate, under a section for “other significant conditions contributing to death.”
“This public-health data is beneficial to all of us, eventually giving us a handle on who is most likely to die of COVID-19,” says Aiken. “It is not a conspiracy and not a departure from typical practice.” She also adds that it would be “very difficult” to manipulate data, considering how many “checks and balances [there are] in the U.S. death-investigation system,” with medical examiners’ offices sharing reports of COVID-19 deaths with both the Department of Health and the Bureau of Vital Records. “So there are three groups continuously analyzing, vetting, and refining the reported death information,” she says.
There is, of course, no evidence that COVID-19 death certificates are being manipulated to inflate the death count — and needless to say, having someone with a doctor’s credentials publicly diminish the threat of COVID-19 is dangerous to the public good, to say the least, says Dr. Joan Donovan, research director at Harvard Kennedy Shorenstein Center. “This kind of speculation is driving toward two different outcomes,” she says. “One is very dangerous in the sense that if people think the death rate is being inflated, they may take on risky behaviors. The second would be that, if someone is convinced that the profit motives of the hospital outweigh the drive to keep them well, they may avoid the hospital if they think it won’t provide good care.”
In a country plagued by overburdened hospital systems and a lack of resources and widely available testing, to a degree it makes sense to question the data emerging during a pandemic. But if nothing else, most evidence (including one U.K. study released earlier this week) suggests that COVID-19 deaths are under, not overcounted.
Last edited by jonbenson; 06-27-2020 at 10:03 PM..
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