Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
What's the old saying? Each time a northerner moves to the south, the collective IQ of the north increases and the collective IQ of the south decreases.
jo28 don't waste your breath. As a FORMER transplanted yankee (aka damn yankee) who is now back to being a yankee (northerner who goes back home). There is no reasoning with these folks like NYhater...just look at his name! These are people who blame their unhappiness on where they live and feel they can only escape these insecurities by moving to a place that Forbes tells them is the best. I'm not saying this is all northern migrants to the south; but it is certainly a decent proportion of the ones who post on City-data and WAAAAAY too many of the people who flooded the Triangle area in NC in the mid 2000's at the peak of the housing boom when we decided (after 13 years of being down there) to head back north.
You aren't going to change these folks minds. They KNOW that moving to the south or wherever else WILL make them HAPPIER no matter WHAT. It doesn't matter that NC now has one of the highest unemployment rates in the country and can't keep up with the infrastructure demanded by the flood of people Forbes and Money magazine tell to move there....Their own happiness is all that matters and all of their problems in life will dissolve once they cross the mason dixon line. Who are you or I or anyone else to try and give them a dose of reality and take off their rose-colored sunglasses? They know what it's like to live in the South better than any of us who have have actually lived there for years or where born there.
Hey, I'minformed, since you've seen both sides of the coin could you please explain to me why NC has become such an obsession with a lot of people in the last ten years. So many people have a "grass is greener" mentality it would make Lot blush. Where did this kind of thinking come from? and why do so many people hate their home to the point that they're willing to uproot. I've never been to New York but I'm guessing it isn't that horrible of a place to live, yet there seems to be a mindset from some new yorkers that they hate their home and even their own culture. how sad. But some don't hate their own culture, they think their culture is superior and there's nothing wrong with that... as long as they don't move to somebody elses turf, take over (i.e. city council, school board), and try to ram their lifestyle down our throat! This trend is probably the most disturbing: People moving down south who have no love for the south and want to completely change it, that's when I put my foot down and those people I certainly don't like. Obviously, I'minformed, you don't have that midset, you respect the way of life of most southerners, but you probably know the kind of people I'm talking about.
What's the old saying? Each time a northerner moves to the south, the collective IQ of the north increases and the collective IQ of the south decreases.
Hey, I'minformed, since you've seen both sides of the coin could you please explain to me why NC has become such an obsession with a lot of people in the last ten years. So many people have a "grass is greener" mentality it would make Lot blush. Where did this kind of thinking come from? and why do so many people hate their home to the point that they're willing to uproot. I've never been to New York but I'm guessing it isn't that horrible of a place to live, yet there seems to be a mindset from some new yorkers that they hate their home and even their own culture. how sad. But some don't hate their own culture, they think their culture is superior and there's nothing wrong with that... as long as they don't move to somebody elses turf, take over (i.e. city council, school board), and try to ram their lifestyle down our throat! This trend is probably the most disturbing: People moving down south who have no love for the south and want to completely change it, that's when I put my foot down and those people I certainly don't like. Obviously, I'minformed, you don't have that midset, you respect the way of life of most southerners, but you probably know the kind of people I'm talking about.
I can't describe all of the northern migrants to NC with the same broad brush, but I can tell you trends I've noticed and my theory on the whole thing. When we first moved to NC in the mid-90's, it was a fairly popular place to relocate to for people form Upstate, NY but not really on the radar for the Downstate/Long Islander's yet. If you've never been to NYS at all then you must understand that Upstate and Downstate are two different worlds. Upstate is about half rural, half "urban", with the "urban" being in the 4 largest metros of Buffalo, Rochester (where I live), Syracuse, and Albany. These cities are MUCH MUCH more similar in size, culture, and pace to Raleigh, Charlotte and Greensboro than they are to NYC. Some people in Upstate NY liked the idea of moving to NC because it was fairly similar culturally to Upstate but with warmer weather and at that time, better employment opportunities. The migration then had always been a slow but steady trickle. And really it wasn't as big of a deal back then. I know when we first moved to NC from upstate ny we'd get jokes about being "yankees" all the time but we didn't have that screatching Noo Yawk accent, weren't overly aggresive/ fast paced, etc; and (with the excpetion of maybe having a Wegmans built) didn't long for things to be more similar to they way they were "back home". In the 90's, Long Island wasn't very expensive. It's real estate market was on par with the rest of the country; maybe a little higher (higher than in NC and Upstate) but with the mega high-paying jobs producing city of NYC so close by, it should be expected to be so. Thus; Long Islanders were pretty content staying there. When the now infamous real estate boom happened, this all changed. It addmitedly got pretty expensive to live in all of the NYC/LI region. The people in that region suddenly weren't able to have as big of a house they wanted. Forbes and Money magazine had been posting all of those "best places to move" articles and then the Noo Yowka's ate it up. They could sell their modest (yet sufficient) homes on LI for $500k and buy a McMansion down in NC that would have cheaper taxes; and so the word got out (Oh muy gwad..its sooo cheap deown theya!").. the floodgates opened. Because NC was "so cheap" compared to LI/NJ (which btw are not the only expensive areas people were fleeing for NC, don't forget about California and Florida; it wasn't ALL the "yankees") people didn't mind slowly paying more and more to live there. Thus, while the COL of was now also going up in NC for natives or people who had moved there years before; it was still "cheap" for them so they kept on commin'. Honestly much of the hype about NC from people in Upstate NY is starting to fade now as they've heard from friends and family who moved down there a while ago (and others who have moved back like me!) that it's now more expensive in NC than Upstate NY; and because the job market got so flooded with new transplants, the unemployment rate is higher too!.
All of the people who relocate to the south from the North are not as zealously anti-NY and overly enthusiastic/expecting too much from moving south as some of the folks who post on this board. But it certainly seems that's a mindset by far too many people who are unhappy for reasons they don't quite understand or are in denial about. If you had read this forum or the NC forum back in its early days/heydays of 2006 your jaw would drop! That was the height of the real estate market and as I'm sure you know the height of the "invasion". You wouldn't believe the crazy over-the-top notions and expectations some of the posters on here were discussing and getting VERY defensive over back then. And yet, 3+ years later. I don't see them still posting on here proclaiming their predictions of instantanious happiness forever had come true after their move south!
EDIT; Oh wow I didn't realize how long that post was! Sorry if it's too much to read! lol
I can't describe all of the northern migrants to NC with the same broad brush, but I can tell you trends I've noticed and my theory on the whole thing. When we first moved to NC in the mid-90's, it was a fairly popular place to relocate to for people form Upstate, NY but not really on the radar for the Downstate/Long Islander's yet. If you've never been to NYS at all then you must understand that Upstate and Downstate are two different worlds. Upstate is about half rural, half "urban", with the "urban" being in the 4 largest metros of Buffalo, Rochester (where I live), Syracuse, and Albany. These cities are MUCH MUCH more similar in size, culture, and pace to Raleigh, Charlotte and Greensboro than they are to NYC. Some people in Upstate NY liked the idea of moving to NC because it was fairly similar culturally to Upstate but with warmer weather and at that time, better employment opportunities. The migration then had always been a slow but steady trickle. And really it wasn't as big of a deal back then. I know when we first moved to NC from upstate ny we'd get jokes about being "yankees" all the time but we didn't have that screatching Noo Yawk accent, weren't overly aggresive/ fast paced, etc; and (with the excpetion of maybe having a Wegmans built) didn't long for things to be more similar to they way they were "back home". In the 90's, Long Island wasn't very expensive. It's real estate market was on par with the rest of the country; maybe a little higher (higher than in NC and Upstate) but with the mega high-paying jobs producing city of NYC so close by, it should be expected to be so. Thus; Long Islanders were pretty content staying there. When the now infamous real estate boom happened, this all changed. It addmitedly got pretty expensive to live in all of the NYC/LI region. The people in that region suddenly weren't able to have as big of a house they wanted. Forbes and Money magazine had been posting all of those "best places to move" articles and then the Noo Yowka's ate it up. They could sell their modest (yet sufficient) homes on LI for $500k and buy a McMansion down in NC that would have cheaper taxes; and so the word got out (Oh muy gwad..its sooo cheap deown theya!").. the floodgates opened. Because NC was "so cheap" compared to LI/NJ (which btw are not the only expensive areas people were fleeing for NC, don't forget about California and Florida; it wasn't ALL the "yankees") people didn't mind slowly paying more and more to live there. Thus, while the COL of was now also going up in NC for natives or people who had moved there years before; it was still "cheap" for them so they kept on commin'. Honestly much of the hype about NC from people in Upstate NY is starting to fade now as they've heard from friends and family who moved down there a while ago (and others who have moved back like me!) that it's now more expensive in NC than Upstate NY; and because the job market got so flooded with new transplants, the unemployment rate is higher too!.
All of the people who relocate to the south from the North are not as zealously anti-NY and overly enthusiastic/expecting too much from moving south as some of the folks who post on this board. But it certainly seems that's a mindset by far too many people who are unhappy for reasons they don't quite understand or are in denial about. If you had read this forum or the NC forum back in its early days/heydays of 2006 your jaw would drop! That was the height of the real estate market and as I'm sure you know the height of the "invasion". You wouldn't believe the crazy over-the-top notions and expectations some of the posters on here were discussing and getting VERY defensive over back then. And yet, 3+ years later. I don't see them still posting on here proclaiming their predictions of instantanious happiness forever had come true after their move south!
EDIT; Oh wow I didn't realize how long that post was! Sorry if it's too much to read! lol
That's the conclusion I also came to. I think we both agree. I have one more question to ask you though, I recently spoke to a guy from downstate NY and I asked him if NC would return to the kind of growth it was seeing in the early to late 2000's. He said not a chance. He went on to tell me what you've told, that home prices on LI skyrocketed during the whole boom period and now that home prices are coming down NC will not get the level of migration it was getting back in 2006 and 2007. He said it will be dacades before NC ever returns to that kind of growth. He also said that many NY'ers will even move back home as home prices continue to drop. Do you agree with his assesment?
Also, one of my best friends growing up was born in upstate NY. His family was one of the nicest people I have ever known. They moved here back in '89 and it's pretty sad now that all migrants get a bad name becuase of the invasion of the last decade. I think most southerners don't know what to think because so many people moved down here in the last decade that we kinda have turned against all outsiders. It has put us in kind of a panic mode. But it should be noted, as you have done so yourself, that the level of migration in the '80s and '90s was sustanible and not that large. But around '02-'03 when the trickle turned into a jailbreak that's when things started to change. But I think this recession/depression will return things back to normal. Tell me what you think. BTW, I don't mind long post, I like reading. Thanks.
I agree with you about the rate of migration slowing back to the manageable level it was in the 80's and 90s when we first moved to NC. Though I think it will still continue to be mostly people from LI/NJ/FL/CA...as those places will probably always remain more expensive than NC while Upstate and the interior northeast/midwest are cheaper. I don't think there will be a HUGE migration back to the north by transplants. But I have definitely noticed that I've run into more and more people in my hometown who have a very similar situation to mine; moved to NC pre-boom, saw the effect the boom had on it AND missed family/home, and came back. I wouldn't say its the majority of people that move back end up returning, but probably a higher proportion than before.
I agree with you about the rate of migration slowing back to the manageable level it was in the 80's and 90s when we first moved to NC. Though I think it will still continue to be mostly people from LI/NJ/FL/CA...as those places will probably always remain more expensive than NC while Upstate and the interior northeast/midwest are cheaper. I don't think there will be a HUGE migration back to the north by transplants. But I have definitely noticed that I've run into more and more people in my hometown who have a very similar situation to mine; moved to NC pre-boom, saw the effect the boom had on it AND missed family/home, and came back. I wouldn't say its the majority of people that move back end up returning, but probably a higher proportion than before.
I agree, I also don't think people will move back north in huge numbers but there will be a little bit of a slowdown because of the economy
If New York could find a way out of its financial situation, and attract some jobs, I’m sure there are many native Upstate New Yorkers, myself included, who would seriously consider returning.
Moved here in 1995 for career opportunities and it has worked out well. No regrets, but I admit that I might be a little happier in more familiar surroundings. Most of the people I know here originally from NY moved here for career reasons, not because they hated NY. I don’t know many downstaters, but I can imagine that there are some who moved here for non-job reasons, and may ultimately be disappointed.
While the growth has slowed a little, there are plenty of people already here to sustain the growth. On average 18-20 children are born in Wake County everyday.
While the number of large, undeveloped tracts are dwindling, there is still plenty of room for in-fill development and the developers won’t stop until Wake County is built-out. At that point, I predict, the developers will either flock to the next “hot spot” or simply spread out farther into the surrounding counties.
Any yankee down in NC feel like me?? Something is missing here that just isn't home. Lived in the lower hudson valley all my life, got tired of the rat race wanted better life for family....You all know what I mean right?? I even wrote the governor for squashing out the hard working middle class, never heard back. I have been here w/my husband and daughter for 8 LONG months, he's doing better than her and I but we are already putting house back on market. Please NC people when you read this don't get mad I DON"T HATE your state but the majority of you HATE us northerners and I'm sick of it! Guess what you won, we are going back home to kids playing outdoors and neighbors chatting in the front yard and we'll pay through our ***! And yeah some of us may be rude maybe because you are so rude to us, (rolling your eyes as you here my "accent", saying "you won't hold it against me" when I say I'm from NY. I guess I'm bitter, when you get that mostly everyday, how would you feel. Anyway, thanks for letting me sound off and if anybody thinks the grass is greener in NC, think again, don't come here until your kids are grown and you are prepared to live in solitude w/your spouse or significant other.. BYE BYE ignorancy, hello integellency!!! Can't wait to get back, hope my house sells soon!!! I LOVE NY!!!!
I feel exactly like you do. I moved here almost 8 years ago and my mother and my late stepfather were already living here because of a job transfer. Being with them and meeting my husband were the only good things about being down here. There is nothing else good. People don't know how to be friends here. My husband has gone up to New York and have seen not only my family but just people at grocery stores, church, etc. He grew up in North Carolina and he tells me that the people in New York are friendlier than the people here. He has family here, but he is still willing to move there. If we can find jobs up there from here, then we are making our move. We have recently put our house up for sale too. I hope it sells quick.
When the now infamous real estate boom happened, this all changed. It addmitedly got pretty expensive to live in all of the NYC/LI region. The people in that region suddenly weren't able to have as big of a house they wanted. Forbes and Money magazine had been posting all of those "best places to move" articles and then the Noo Yowka's ate it up. They could sell their modest (yet sufficient) homes on LI for $500k and buy a McMansion down in NC that would have cheaper taxes; and so the word got out (Oh muy gwad..its sooo cheap deown theya!").. the floodgates opened.
What a nutshell description of what it's been like here in NC. And perhaps New Yorkers can understand why there is resentment towards them when they move here. It was truly an "open the floodgates" situation a few years ago ( and it seems to me that it still is, to a degree) with thousands coming from NYC/NJ/LI, many having no clue what NC was actually like nor caring, just "grabbing a cheap place" (this sort of things was once called "carpetbagging"). Many of these people had NO interest in the history, culture, or people of the area, and didn't leave their "big city" ways behind and didn't give a hoot about "When in Rome, do as the Romans". Many spend their days telling southerners "Why do you do ____ like that? You should do it the way we do up in New York!" (and that's among the more polite ways of wording it). When you have heard that over and over for years, not to mention the whole "You people sure do talk funny down here" with an unmistakeable tone of condescension, what, pray tell, are folks supposed to think about New Yorkers (which includes NJ/LI)?
Every area of the US has its own customs and "ways", whether Midwestern, New England, Texan, Hawaiian, Seattlite, Southern, or NYC. But I would say that two that are most different from each other are Southern and NYC, so there is most potential for clashing when a Southern state is "invaded" by thousands upon thousands of New Yorkers in a VERY short time, many (not all) who bring the "Noo Yawk attitude" as well as generally louder, more aggressive, in-your-face personalities, there is going to be clash and resentment. It's similar to how Oregon has a big resentment for Californians, moving to OR by the tens of thousands. Any time one group relocates in such huge numbers to somewhere else, there will be clashes of the cultures, as the natives resent the newcomers' coming in and "taking over" and trying to make everything just like it was where they left (which of course brings up the not-so-rhetorical question, "if everything in NY was so wonderful and NC is so backwards, then why don't you go back?")
It's a matter of scale, and until the "firehose" is turned off from NY->NC migration, there is going to be resentment, just as there would be if some other state were sending people by the 10,000s into your own neighborhood and they weren't interested in the area/history/local customs, but instead just whined and complained about how it wasn't like what they were used to.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
