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Possibly not much. The passage of Amendment 1 already made us look like a bunch of ignorant, backwater hicks stuck in the 19th century to many people across the country. This will just add to our reputation.
Except maybe for someone who tosses around words like, "bleeding heart liberals" and, "yankee" like they are some type of slur and provide comments with no actual substance whatsoever.
My brother (like me, from the Northeast) moved to central NC about 15 years ago. Owns a business with about a dozen employees and does very well. He likes NC. My mother moved to NC last year (also from NE). So far, she's happy too. My wife and I visited Asheville this spring and are considering moving there.
None of us have any particular political or social passions. We're all just middle of the road. None of us though like or respect reactionary and extreme politics/social views (such as tossing around "liberal" or "yankee" as though the words are, in and of themselves, pejorative), so when I read about the NC legislature passing regulations about Sharia Law (Is there a big problem with that in NC? Really?) for the sole purpose of attaching draconian abortion regulations to it, or making "laws" about how high the ocean tide can rise, or gutting spending on education, it gives me pause, and leads to me wonder what sort of people are elected to office in NC, and who is voting for them. Will it stop me from moving to NC if, on subsequent visits my wife and find we like it? Probably not. The temperature seems moderate, but the climate is a little out of whack, at least for the present.
You know, if North Carolina is such a crappy state, why do Northerns move to it? I find it strange that those from the North become outraged when they move into someone else's neighborhood/culture and they don't think like they do. It's like when Americans go abroad and don't seem to understand the local culture and customs, and are labeled "Ugly Americans" by foreigners. This is one of thing I never understood.
*Yankee family moving to the Carolinas*
"What, you don't have this or you do this? Blaspheme! How dare you!? You heathens! Our way is better, and we'll impose our beliefs on this new state we just moved to!"
The problem with this assessment is the state was way more "progressive" 50 years ago than it has been the past couple decades. The stuff which led all those yankees to move here in the first place are the product of people like Terry Sanford, who'd be considered a wackadoodle leftist in today's Democratic party, even by yankee standards.
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Originally Posted by sovertennis
so when I read about the NC legislature passing regulations about Sharia Law (Is there a big problem with that in NC? Really?) for the sole purpose of attaching draconian abortion regulations to it, or making "laws" about how high the ocean tide can rise, or gutting spending on education, it gives me pause, and leads to me wonder what sort of people are elected to office in NC, and who is voting for them.
In large part people who moved here from the northeast. The traditional Democratic power center was in the rural eastern part of the state, with Piedmont business interests going along as it benefited them as well. With the growth of the suburbs, driven by recent transplants mostly from the northeast and elsewhere, that power's shifted and most of the legislation coming out of Raleigh now reflects those new interests.
That's not to blame transplants for everything, since obviously it required enough of the more conservative rural population to give them the necessary voter strength, but it's clear who's running the show here.
What it looks like to you and your buddies doesn't matter. That will not influence the influx of people or businesses.
California isn't a better place because SCOTUS rejected Prop 8. The people of California still want an Amendment 1.
I suppose that's a backwater too.
Worth noting that most people aren't gay so they're not necessarily affected by something like Prop 8 and they can safely move wherever they please regardless of the state's policy on same-sex marriage. It's the principle of the thing for most people. Also, I am somewhat skeptical Prop 8 would pass again if it were put up to a vote. The 'people' of California don't speak in unison.
Also, you can't really protest those kinds of laws with your feet because few states have legalized same-sex marriage, and there isn't enough room for half the country to move to those states. It's ludicrous to expect people to do that. There's more to life than politics. As long as you can afford to take care of yourself you can 'put up' with the politicies of the state you're in, and it's often better to stay and fight to make some place better than to run at the first sign that things aren't going your way.
Regarding Amendment 1 in this state... Amendment 1 actually deprives straight couples of some rights as well, such as legal domestic partnerships. And it bans same-sex civil unions as well as same-sex marriages, despite the fact that most North Carolinians support civil unions for same-sex couples. They were tricked into voting against their self-interest yet again.
First of all, Mr. Rational: what are you talking about? Read my post again. Rdanville: people are relocating to NC in droves. NYT has absolutely no control over that. Most of the people in the Research Triangle think the Moral Monday stuff is merely a stunt. I believe one of the news outlets released a chart of the different agencies represented by these supposed 'moral' protesters. These protesters are neo-liberal types who want their big share of funding.
Backwater hicks with PHds running labs in RTP. Such embarrassments for our state.
I marvel at the fact that there are actually people (presumably educated) today who still actually use the word "Yankee" without reference to a baseball team. Unreal.....
These are usually the same folks who tend to use the phrase, "The War of Northern Aggression"
Northerners moved to it because the cities themselves are progressive, and the climate might be more to their liking. NC historically had a progressive reputation on things like education and criminal justice, especially compared to other southern states. Don't forget the sit-in movement started here in the 1960s. NC was chosen, as opposed to say Alabama or Mississippi, as the students wanted to walk out of the store alive. It's also a beautiful state, the cities are growing rapidly and have well-educated workforces, and the knowledge that growth is occurring helps encourage businesses to relocate here.
No arguments on Northerners moving to cities.
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Originally Posted by Vatnos
This is the same guilt-trip southern conservatives said when the civil rights act was passed. Ultimately they've only ever used it to defend their right to take away other people's rights. And don't pretend the values you have are southern, and that every southerner inherently shares them. I was born in NC and I've lived here my entire life and you certainly don't speak for me.
I guess what kind of values we are talking about. Social conservatism or liberalism? Financial/economic values? My focus of my debate isn't on the social side (gay marriage, abortion, religion and government, ect., are things that conservatives need to be fought on), but on the other issues.
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Originally Posted by Vatnos
This sounds like a FOX news soundbite with nothing historical or empirical to support it. Fun, little known fact: FDR never raised the national debt to pay for the New Deal, and we were out of the Great Depression before WWII started.
Yet, today, we have, what, around $15 trillion of debt, we have an out-of-control welfare system that is unsustainable from both a financial and entitlement standpoint.
The New Deal is also from the 1930s. We live in a very different economic and political deal. I would also argue that the New Deal's goals are nothing like it is today. For example, the Economic Act actually required the balance of the budget and appeased. SS was put into place, but not many people lived long enough to collect it, or collect more than they put in. I'm all for bringing back the Glass-Stagall Act that went into effect. And The New Deal actually spent money on public works that got done, none of this wasteful and pork spending.
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Originally Posted by Vatnos
Our schools are getting more expensive over time, and taking over an increasing proportion of the average middle-class household income. At the rate things are going, college will become an institution reserved for the wealthy and those lucky enough to find scholarships. Something to think about: fourty years ago a single-income household could easily send two kids to college, save for retirement, and pay for a new house in a nice part of town while paying for health insurance as well. Now it's a slog for a two-income house to meet those demands. So somewhere in the past 40 years, americans got poorer. You can blame much of that on Reagan and the preposterous idea of 'trickle-down economics', whereby cutting government programs that provided services for the poor and middle-class and giving massive tax breaks to the upper class would somehow cause the rest of us to not get screwed and actually see this money again some day (a thing which never happened).
Note that in terms of raw population, California is growing just as fast as Texas. The dynamics of growth are complicated. Texas grew because of the oil industry, and its growth started earlier and was much stronger than the growth NC has had. The more recent growth in cities like Austin is fueled by computer industries and scientific research (similar to RTP and silicon valley). To compensate for their state's conservative governance, the cities in Texas take a more proactive role in taxing and providing services. NC cities will probably have to learn to do the same.
Agree with you on the schools return-on-investment. I disagree with you on Reagan (for example, the rich still pay the majority of taxes in the country, along with the politics of deciding what the role of government should be), but that's an argument that isn't going to change each others' minds, but besides that, I see three things:
1) I think too many kids are going to college-who frankly-aren't college material. The other thing with my last sentence is that when everyone becomes on the same playing field, you're ability to stand out and be rewarded for that extra step makes you less valuable.
2) We need to decide on what college is. Is it to train? Is it to "learn"? For graduate/professional programs and R&D? The educational model is stuck in the 1900's, and with technology and globalization, we need to design our training/educational model for the 21st century. The future is going to be focused on STEM fields and really creative pursuits. North Carolina has incredible universities-both private and public-that make North Carolina a great place for businesses and residents. It just needs to figure out, with the rest of the country, how reduce costs and improve results. Easier said and done.
3) I think the federal loan/grant program needs to be revised.
What is the demographics of growth in both Texas and California?
You are saying that California isn't a backwater based on how you think they think and not based on what they did.
Utter nonsense.
If that made any sense then NYT should have done a survey and judged us by the results.
Well, judging by the sea change in public opinion nationwide on this issue and recent elections and referenda in favor of same-sex marriage, I would assert your point of reference from 2008 and before is way stale. Moreover, judging by all the politicians "evolving" toward support equal marriage, politicians also believe the electorate today is pro-equality. You know things have evolved when even George W Bush tries to disavow his antigay past and wiggles away from saying he opposes same-sex marriage.
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