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There are several reasons why NoVa's black population *seems* small:
1) DC and the MD suburbs generally have much more prominent black populations
2) Blacks are the smallest minority in DC's Virginia suburbs, but the largest minority (by far) in DC's Maryland suburbs
3) Blacks are outnumbered by Asians almost 2:1 in the *heart* of NoVA- namely, Fairfax County
4) The only parts of NoVa with black concentrations significantly higher than the national average are lower middle class areas, unlike in the case of the MD suburbs.
5) Many individuals don't consider African immigrants "black", and in lots of inner Northern Virginia (FFX county and Arlington), African immigrants constitute a HUGE chunk of the black population (25-30%)
6) NoVa is a suburban subregion of DC and is also the commercial heart of the region; given DC's reputation as the "Chocolate City", many visitors come expecting to see tons of blacks every, but are usually disappointed when they see more Hispanics or Asians than blacks (however, this is simply natural, as blacks are outnumbered by BOTH Hispanics AND Asians in NoVa)
I agree i feel the same way which why I actually like nova more than md. Some people got lost in everything that was said and completely forgot that I stated in my very first post that my wife and I want to move back to nova because it is diverse. The fact that I think most will agree with is nova has its share of blacks but not on the level as pg or dc. I'm okay with that because my children aren't going to subjected to being prejudice towards anyone. The only way you learn about other cultures and accept their differences is by being around them. Nova certainly has its issues as will most places but living in a place where people of all backgrounds can live in harmony is what my wife and i have dreamed of when we got married. There are a number of blacks who would agree with me, others who don't. Everybody has their reasons. Being around people who look like me and raising children around them is just not my cup of tea.
Now we're talking. Things are the way they are for a long list of complicated reasons that most of us were not around to have had much of anything to do with. We do have a lot to do with what happens today and what that will mean for our kids and the kids that they will have. Whether by design or not and whether we even think about it or not, we are all involved in the process of building the world as they will see it. When we act even in small and local ways to bend that world more toward what we would wish and hope for them to have, we make progress. When we see the writing on the wall and decide there's nothing we can do about it, we don't. I spent a good chunk of my early years in the still hard-boiled Jim Crow south. I lived long enough to pack my son off on a high school ski trip weekend that was organized by a black family. That's a small, even a teeny-tiny thing on one scale, and a great huge leap on another one. The bottom line is that it all adds up -- all of it -- and we have to decide which column we really want to be a part of.
I agree i feel the same way which why I actually like nova more than md. Some people got lost in everything that was said and completely forgot that I stated in my very first post that my wife and I want to move back to nova because it is diverse. The fact that I think most will agree with is nova has its share of blacks but not on the level as pg or dc. I'm okay with that because my children aren't going to subjected to being prejudice towards anyone. The only way you learn about other cultures and accept their differences is by being around them. Nova certainly has its issues as will most places but living in a place where people of all backgrounds can live in harmony is what my wife and i have dreamed of when we got married. There are a number of blacks who would agree with me, others who don't. Everybody has their reasons. Being around people who look like me and raising children around them is just not my cup of tea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista
Most blacks will (rightly) complain some about a bunch of whites talking over this or that and then suddenly turning to him and saying "What do black people think?" as if the guy were somehow able to stand there and lucidly expound upon the views of 42 million very diverse people. But you're claiming to be able to do that. You want the whole kit and kaboodle to hang exclusively on what you and some handful of people you happen to know decided to do in your own little slice of time and in your own rather particular circumstances. I for one am not buying it. There are broader and more profound views and understandings than the rather narrow and limited ones that you've put forward. There is more evidence to be considered than just what you have managed to introduce. But you want discussion to end at the bounds of what you personally know or feel and what you personally have decided. This, on the basis of being a black guy. Basically, it doesn't work that way.
On the affordability of houses, when I was buying my home my non-black colleagues at work were also buying their first homes. We all made the same salary but I was looking at $300k or less and they were looking at $500-$600k. Every single one of them that were buying homes in the $500k+ range had family financial support for college, grad school, wedding, house downpayment, etc. and/or a spouse making $250k+. I think this helps to make such a first home purchase in your early 30s an option and opens up a wider range of neighborhoods you can afford to buy in. For many AA, this kind of financial support is often not available and hence we start off further behind with more school loan debt and less savings. This is not meant to be a 'whoa as me' comment but it is just a fact for most I know. And though there are some who were irresponsible and blew their money with bad choices, this is not the case for all. Frankly I do not have any professional black friends who are into rims, expensive cars, or similar stereotypes of why many may think they have little savings to prepare for a home purchase in a better neighborhood. They do not have it because they did it all on their own with help along the way from credit and loans and not free family assistance. They may be the first to have gone to college in their family, the first to not live check to check, and the first to own a home. There are many like myself who lived below their means but a lack of family financial cash infusion throughout your 20s and 30s means you start off behind the curve despite making the same amount of money.
Wholeheartedly agree. This is the point I was trying to make earlier on. Some people discounted the fact that it was reported that whites on average have 20 times more wealth than blacks. Those weren't numbers from a survey or a study, those were Census numbers. It's real. There are many (not all) black people who do not have the luxury of wealthy parents and inheritance from wealthy relatives to pay for college, cars, or houses. If money wasn't an issue, I'm certain you would see more black people in NoVA. There are some people (black or any other race) who live in PG or DC because it's all that is realistically affordable and still allows you to work within a commutable distance to your job. I'm not here to say that that is always the case though, but it happens a lot more than some may think.
On the affordability of houses, when I was buying my home my non-black colleagues at work were also buying their first homes. We all made the same salary but I was looking at $300k or less and they were looking at $500-$600k. Every single one of them that were buying homes in the $500k+ range had family financial support for college, grad school, wedding, house downpayment, etc. and/or a spouse making $250k+. I think this helps to make such a first home purchase in your early 30s an option and opens up a wider range of neighborhoods you can afford to buy in. For many AA, this kind of financial support is often not available and hence we start off further behind with more school loan debt and less savings.
Among a bunch of others. this is an excellent point not previously raised in the thread. The role of intergenerational economic momentum is way under-recognized (to the point of simply being taken for granted) by a great many whites, while the lack of it is a readily apparent fact of everyday life for a great many blacks. People who are able to comprehend the magic of compounding when it comes to developing an investment portfolio are somehow unable to appreciate that there are indeed long-term effects inherent in black median household income having had to battle for decades now in hopes of one day reaching two-thirds of what white median household income is. The reasons for that gap can be elsewhere debated, but the reality and impacts of it should not be ignored here. Exactly as you have suggested, this is a significant reason why a majority of young white singles and couples can have an expectation of soon enough becoming independently successful while a majority of young black singles and couples know they will continue to need (and hence seek to maintain) group and family support over a longer term. The reality (as opposed to the illusion) is that white folks are NOT doing it on their own. They are doing it on the basis of advantages built into their lives by the long history of a tilted playing field. This is why the Supreme Court in the University of Michigan cases told opponents of affirmative action to go away and come back in 25 years and maybe the Court would take a look at it again. I personally doubt that 25 years will be a long enough time, in part because there are still so many who simply don't and/or won't see the very facts that you have just pointed out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechlawyerinPG
This is not meant to be a 'whoa as me' comment...
Not meaning to be picky, but as an FYI, that likely should have been 'woe is me'.
Being familiar with this area from the early 1950's and having lived here since the late 1960's, there was once very good reason for those perceptions. Thanks to the quiet and sometimes not so quiet efforts of a great many people, most of them forever unknown and anonymous, there isn't anymore.
My reason for coming to PG county is because I feel like I get more for my money here. I initially was looking for an apt in Alexandria b/c my job at the time was there when I first came here 6 months ago. I found an apt that was a mile from the metro, 2 bd ba with a washer/dryer in unit for over $2000! But I decided to look in Maryland and I ended up finding an even bigger and nicer place in walking distance to Branch ave metro for only $1420 and I was sold!
I don't necessarily think that African-Americans move to PG county instead of NoVa just because PG county is cheaper and they can't afford to stay in NoVa. I think it comes down to preference and bottom line is that you can get a nice single family home in PG a lot cheaper than a small townhouse in Arlington or Alexandria.
My question is why are most whites moving to nova as opposed to pg county??
I'm sure the usual answers such as crime and bad schools will come into play....
Was wondering why there is such a lack of African American presence in Northern Virginia. I recently looked at related C-D thread that should a comparison between Atlanta and DC. This shows more dispersed population in Atlanta as opposed to just DC and PG.
A number of places are cheaper. Northern Virginia is the most expensive place in Virginia to live. Yet there is no shortage of Blacks in Virginia. There are a lot in Richmond, Roanoke, Hampton Roads cities like Norfolk, Portsmouth, Hampton. A lot of it boils down to socio-economics. You won't see many Blacks in the more expensive areas of Virginia, or any state, for that matter. Cheaper, working class areas, plenty of Blacks. Exception may be PG county.
My question is why are most whites moving to nova as opposed to pg county??
I'm sure the usual answers such as crime and bad schools will come into play....
Heh!
My wife and I attended a send off event for our DD's college (DD was away for the summer and couldnt be there, we went anyway) It was held at the home of a college alum in a gated community in PG county. The alum happened to be african american. My impression was that all his neighbors in that community were as well. The community was lovely, the house was lovely. So I looked up on a realtor site what houses there sold for. About 30% or so less than roughly comparable places in Fairfax. We reflected on this - IF you can find good schools (and I suspect the upper middle class AA folk in PG know EXACTLY which public schools to look for and which to avoid) PG offers an excellent deal for AA folks who want to be in a heavily AA community. We probably wouldnt be comfortable being not only the only Jews (BTDT) but the only whites in the community. Not that we are looking for a big suburban house in a gated community anyway.
We did take a look at National Harbor. Probably wont quite meet our needs, but it was pretty interesting.
Last edited by FindingZen; 09-07-2011 at 06:53 PM..
Reason: sorry, we can't reference realtor-driven sites as it constitutes advertising
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