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I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who has posted in this thread. It's been interesting to read the differing viewpoints.
I agree! It's really informative and helpful to have a place where folks of all backgrounds can discuss emotionally fraught subjects like race--and really learn something new--without introducing awkwardness into friendships or work relationships.
I'd like to add: After reading the very thought-provoking posts from African Americans on this thread, it struck me that the majority-black areas of the region are not unlike perhaps South Boston would be for whites. South Boston is ultra-Irish and ultra-Catholic working class. I can imagine that anyone there who aspires to an education or non-trade profession might be seen as pompous and met with significant disdain from his peers. Not to mention if the person married a Protestant or (gasp) a non-white person.
I'm not from South Boston, but from what I've heard and read, that same sense of a culturally homogenous, insular community that regards any escape therefrom as a betrayal sounds simliar to what the African Americans here are describing about black-majority areas.
Last edited by Carlingtonian; 09-22-2011 at 12:48 PM..
I forgot to respond to this part. In order for the smart, nerd-like black people to be accepted, it has to start in the home. If I am raised to believe that education is not cool then it really wouldn't matter how many of these smart types you put in my neighborhood because I won't see the value in them. Of course there are exceptions, but overall, it's the mentality that has to change not the demographics. That is the reason why there has been success stories of people who have grown up in the poorest of poor neighborhoods but still became successful. Your truth, your reality is in what you are being taught. It is very difficult to change the mindset of someone that has had a certain way of thinking since the day they were born.
It is difficult, but it is not impossible. A lot of things in life are difficult. All I am saying is that it seems that it is easier to wash your hands of poor, thugged out Black folk in this day and age. Not that it was any more difficult to do 30 years ago, but it seems that more or more people are doing it. The idea that we were Black, and we can get through this seems to be disappearing. Another poster mentioned that people used to have your back, back in the day. I don't know; Black men and Women can barely get along with each other these days I don't know why I am naive enough to think that Blacks on different sides of the socioeconomic divide could. Is it really that bad in the DMV now? Perhaps I am better off staying down here in HR.
Location: Huntersville/Charlotte, NC and Washington, DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goofy328
It is difficult, but it is not impossible. A lot of things in life are difficult. All I am saying is that it seems that it is easier to wash your hands of poor, thugged out Black folk in this day and age. Not that it was any more difficult to do 30 years ago, but it seems that more or more people are doing it. The idea that we were Black, and we can get through this seems to be disappearing. Another poster mentioned that people used to have your back, back in the day. I don't know; Black men and Women can barely get along with each other these days I don't know why I am naive enough to think that Blacks on different sides of the socioeconomic divide could. Is it really that bad in the DMV now? Perhaps I am better off staying down here in HR.
As a black guy who lived in both the DMV and HR, it is two different worlds in black relations. HR blacks are by and large middle/working class, since it is pretty similar class little class conflict exists. DMV blacks tend to be either upper class or working class which inevitably creates class conflict. I won't sad it is that bad but be prepared.
It is difficult, but it is not impossible. A lot of things in life are difficult. All I am saying is that it seems that it is easier to wash your hands of poor, thugged out Black folk in this day and age. Not that it was any more difficult to do 30 years ago, but it seems that more or more people are doing it. The idea that we were Black, and we can get through this seems to be disappearing. Another poster mentioned that people used to have your back, back in the day. I don't know; Black men and Women can barely get along with each other these days I don't know why I am naive enough to think that Blacks on different sides of the socioeconomic divide could. Is it really that bad in the DMV now? Perhaps I am better off staying down here in HR.
Although I do understand and agree with most of what you said, I disagree with you with this idea that 'we' have to live near each other. 'We' weren't born in the same home, don't share the same parents, possibly don't share the same values. 'We' don't have to be together. Although I am a black man, I like to be known for more than just being black. Don't get my view confused with not caring about issues within the black community because I do, but I don't understand why there is this idea that black people have to live with each other. I'm the type of person that I like to have balance. I consider myself to be a pragmatist. The only way to stay middle is to be exposed to different people, with different backgrounds. My identity of being black will not change if I do not live a black neighborhood. If I can be happier and live a better life in a different neighborhood then what's the problem with that? After all what obligation do I owe people who have never done anything for me? If I do something for the black community it's because I care enough to do so, not because I feel obligated just because of my skin color.
Aside from wondering why getting an Asian GF or spouse is the pinnacle of success ... If we're going to live in the realm of stereotypes here ... most of the actual Asian women I've seen seem to be rather ... non-submissive, like a Tiger Mom.
And this is the first I've heard of Asian kids doing wild stuff during the study breaks. Wouldn't the time spent doing these things be taking away from their math time?
Speaking of Tiger Mom, wouldn't Tiger Woods' African-American father be considered very successful under these standards.
Although I do understand and agree with most of what you said, I disagree with you with this idea that 'we' have to live near each other. 'We' weren't born in the same home, don't share the same parents, possibly don't share the same values. 'We' don't have to be together. Although I am a black man, I like to be known for more than just being black. Don't get my view confused with not caring about issues within the black community because I do, but I don't understand why there is this idea that black people have to live with each other. I'm the type of person that I like to have balance. I consider myself to be a pragmatist. The only way to stay middle is to be exposed to different people, with different backgrounds. My identity of being black will not change if I do not live a black neighborhood. If I can be happier and live a better life in a different neighborhood then what's the problem with that? After all what obligation do I owe people who have never done anything for me? If I do something for the black community it's because I care enough to do so, not because I feel obligated just because of my skin color.
As a black guy who lived in both the DMV and HR, it is two different worlds in black relations. HR blacks are by and large middle/working class, since it is pretty similar class little class conflict exists. DMV blacks tend to be either upper class or working class which inevitably creates class conflict. I won't sad it is that bad but be prepared.
I see what you're saying. HR reminds me of a larger version of my hometown Akron, OH, like by a factor of 10. The DMV reminds me of Cleveland; more class disparity, rougher ghettos (that actually look like ghettos) to get lost in and more hopelessness on the lower class. Taller buildings, and taller housing projects.
HR has really cleaned up things since the 80s and 90s. Not sure if it is artificial, won't last, or unsustainable, or if things really have changed here since then. I wasn't in Virginia back then, just going off of what the locals tell me.
I agree! It's really informative and helpful to have a place where folks of all backgrounds can discuss emotionally fraught subjects like race--and really learn something new--without introducing awkwardness into friendships or work relationships.
I'd like to add: After reading the very thought-provoking posts from African Americans on this thread, it struck me that the majority-black areas of the region are not unlike perhaps South Boston would be for whites. South Boston is ultra-Irish and ultra-Catholic working class. I can imagine that anyone there who aspires to an education or non-trade profession might be seen as pompous and met with significant disdain from his peers. Not to mention if the person married a Protestant or (gasp) a non-white person.
I'm not from South Boston, but from what I've heard and read, that same sense of a culturally homogenous, insular community that regards any escape therefrom as a betrayal sounds simliar to what the African Americans here are describing about black-majority areas.
Michael Barone, who is a center-right political analyst of prodigal knowledge about politics and demographic trends, wrote a little-read book a while back called "The New Americans: How the Melting Pot Can Work Again."
The book rebuts the hard-right claim that new immigrants can't be assimilated and basically compares the Irish, Italian and Jewish immigrants of the late 19th and early 20th Centuries with the southern blacks migrants who settled in the North in the post-war years, Hispanics and Asians, respectively. He draws some remarkable parallels between the two "old" and "new" groups.
For example, both the Irish and the blacks have strong and insular political patronage systems, both groups have a special place for their respective religions and both hail from cultures of "resistance" (to whites and to the Anglo-Saxons overlords, respectively) that have channeled success from non-traditional fields like sports and entertainment (e.g. Irish and black boxers).
"Old" Italians and "New" Hispanics share a folk-style version of Catholicism, and in both groups there is less emphasis on education but higher reliance on tradesmanship (bakers, tailors, mechanics, roofers, etc.) and small business ownership that gradually lead to assimilation.
According to Barone, Jews and Asians have the least similarity among those comparisons. Both value and achieve high standards in education and progress rapidly up the economic ladder to being lawyers and doctors, but while "Jews vote against the Czar," "Asians tend to vote against Mao," with all that implies. Also, a substantial number of Asians in America (50% or more by some measure) tend to be Christians and have more in common with their majority co-religionists.
Barone does find one significant difference between the Irish and black patterns of migration and assimilation -- education. While both groups (the Irish "off the boat" and the blacks freshly in the North after the war) started with low degrees of literacy and education, their respective religions (entrepreneurial Protestantism as opposed to Irish Roman Catholicism) played a different role in fostering education, in particular the latter always having been a path of "out" for the highly promising young Irishmen.
This is where I have to respectfully disagree. Northern VA has its issues too. I have been subjected to quite a bit of racism, but admittedly it has only been in certain parts. Let's not make NoVA seem like a utopia because it's not. Every area has its issues, but some are more tolerable than others.
I agree. I now live in NoVa and there's no connection with who I live around. White women clutch their purses when I pass them when I have my own damn purse to be concerned about, if I'm waking behind someone the person walking in front of me looks back at me giving nervous glances, and people have even stepped into the street to avoid sharing the sidewalk with me. Then there's the opposite where people hog the sidewalks and act too entitled to move when I say "excuse me."
I felt like I moved from one extreme to another, and I cannot wait until I live somewhere where there's a balance and harmony.
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