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this is from wiki, which unfortunately has no citation for the poverty level
"The 2000 U.S. Census reveals that 60% of all Hmong above 24 years of age have a highest educational attainment of high school or equivalent, as many of these immigrants came to America as adults or young adults. About 7% of Hmong have a bachelor's degree or higher. The absence of formal education among Hmong immigrants is due to the fact that many were once farmers in the hills of Laos and had little or no access to schools.[citation needed] In addition, almost 40% of Hmong families are under the poverty level."
when I grew up most of the kids thought the country was at LEAST one quarter Jewish, the rest mostly Catholic, with a few blacks, and maybe the occasional exotic white Protestant. And that the largest trend among the Jews was Orthodox. Ah, childhood.
Ha! Perspective is everything. I didn't meet any Catholics or Jews until high school. Until I moved to VA three years ago the number of Catholics or Jewish people I ever MET could be counted on one hand.
Last edited by terrence81; 09-16-2011 at 01:36 PM..
Location: Ft. Washington/Oxon Hill border, MD (Prince George's County)
321 posts, read 814,830 times
Reputation: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndiaLimaDelta
You don't say... Tell me, how is it that many non-white immigrants (including African and Afro-Carib) who come to this country with even lower levels of "intergenerational" support (and sometimes with nearly zero English skills) than native blacks do so well (or certainly better than would be expected according to this logic)?
Interesting thing about the so-called affirmative action (Michigan and so on). For example, Laotians suffer from horrible poverty, hardship and enormous barriers to success, yet this system grants them far less consideration than a self-identified "black" person with 1/4th African ancestry who hails from an affluent, well-educated family.
How does that square with your statement above?
Oh how often I hear this comment. Let me break it down like I always do for the fallacy that it is. First, I've rarely met anyone here that was African or from the Islands that didn't come from a educated family or came here with more resources and family support than I had as a native that grew up in poverty and as the first to go past high school. I am sure there are some examples of those who came here with $20 in their pocket and made it happen but that is not the typical situation in the DC area. Those cultures have similar struggles with poverty, crime, undereducation etc. that some of the native black population faces here. The difference is that the worst off among them usually never make it through immigration and to the US shores and are back in their home countries where you never get to see their issues. Those with the most education, intelligence, abilities, credentials, educated parents, money, and a built in support base in the US basically the best shot at success here are what you commonly see represented in this area in the African and Caribbean cultures. Second, many are coming from countries where they are the homogeneous majority, not the minority. That in itself leads to a level of empowerment, strong self identity and connection to an actual land they can call home where they have relatives and a history and a strong culture, being educated in a place where you everyone is deemed capable and you don't need No Child Left Behind to make sure there is no white/black/latino achievement gap, higher self-esteem, the predominant image of success and beauty in your country are people who look just like you, less discrimination based on race since they grow up being the majority...you have no idea how much that makes those from those cultures apples and oranges as compared to the native black experience in America...so please stop pitting us against each other with that argument.
Finally, the only relevant thing about that comment would be comparing their levels of homeownership in NoVa to native black Americans and the reasoning behind how they can afford a $500-$700k home in NoVa during late 20s and early 30s age range when a native black American at that same stage finds it more affordable to stay in PG or elsewhere for a home with typically more land and sq footage that is $200-$500k. Perhaps they too got family support or perhaps it is more acceptable in the culture to stay at home as a grown professional and save all your money toward a home purchase (as I have seen many Asian colleagues do) or perhaps they do not come here with the mental baggage about living in Virginia vs. Maryland as a person with dark skin or perhaps they choose to live where there is a large number of people from their Island/Continent/Country. I don't know, but that would be the only relevant line of commentary to this topic in my view.
Oh how often I hear this comment. Let me break it down like I always do for the fallacy that it is. First, I've rarely met anyone here that was African or from the Islands that didn't come from a educated family or came here with more resources and family support than I had as a native that grew up in poverty and as the first to go past high school. I am sure there are some examples of those who came here with $20 in their pocket and made it happen but that is not the typical situation in the DC area. Those cultures have similar struggles with poverty, crime, undereducation etc. that some of the native black population faces here. The difference is that the worst off among them usually never make it through immigration and to the US shores and are back in their home countries where you never get to see their issues. Those with the most education, intelligence, abilities, credentials, educated parents, money, and a built in support base in the US basically the best shot at success here are what you commonly see represented in this area in the African and Caribbean cultures. Second, many are coming from countries where they are the homogeneous majority, not the minority. That in itself leads to a level of empowerment, strong self identity and connection to an actual land they can call home where they have relatives and a history and a strong culture, being educated in a place where you everyone is deemed capable and you don't need No Child Left Behind to make sure there is no white/black/latino achievement gap, higher self-esteem, the predominant image of success and beauty in your country are people who look just like you, less discrimination based on race since they grow up being the majority...you have no idea how much that makes those from those cultures apples and oranges as compared to the native black experience in America...so please stop pitting us against each other with that argument.
Finally, the only relevant thing about that comment would be comparing their levels of homeownership in NoVa to native black Americans and the reasoning behind how they can afford a $500-$700k home in NoVa during late 20s and early 30s age range when a native black American at that same stage finds it more affordable to stay in PG or elsewhere for a home with typically more land and sq footage that is $200-$500k. Perhaps they too got family support or perhaps it is more acceptable in the culture to stay at home as a grown professional and save all your money toward a home purchase (as I have seen many Asian colleagues do) or perhaps they do not come here with the mental baggage about living in Virginia vs. Maryland as a person with dark skin or perhaps they choose to live where there is a large number of people from their Island/Continent/Country. I don't know, but that would be the only relevant line of commentary to this topic in my view.
THANK YOU. People rarely realize that even though there may be Blacks of foreign descent living in city, that does not and should not suggest that the economic reality for those Blacks are on par with African-Americans. For one, they usually come with money and can live better here than the African-Americans that are already Americans. For another, many also come through adoption and are well to do, or better of, for that reason. On top of it all, they send money back home, whereas we tend to spend our money, and have to get bent over backwards through the lending process when we need more.
Black people around the world that just happen to live here are not African-Americans, though, ironically, if you were to hear the term for the first time that is exactly the impression you would walk away with. That is why I hate the term; we are not Africans, we are Americans first, that just happened to have forefathers that were, but long removed, and the Africans that do move here, in this present day are not automatically perceived as being African-Americans as we are.
THANK YOU. People rarely realize that even though there may be Blacks of foreign descent living in city, that does not and should not suggest that the economic reality for those Blacks are on par with African-Americans. For one, they usually come with money and can live better here than the African-Americans that are already Americans. For another, many also come through adoption and are well to do, or better of, for that reason. On top of it all, they send money back home, whereas we tend to spend our money, and have to get bent over backwards through the lending process when we need more.
I encounter a lot of recent African and Caribbean immigrants here doing fairly low paid work, driving cabs and such. They don't appear to be from wealthy backgrounds. They do appear to have a very strong work ethic so I'm guessing if they stay, within a generation or two their progeny will be upper middle class professionals.
My husband and I are both Black Americans and we live in the city of Fairfax. The only reason that I can think of for the lack of Blacks would be financial; however, many wealthy and white collar blacks live in MD. I work in Prince William County and I'm sure there are some nice areas but I would never want to live there. Fairfax has everything we were looking for: schools, cultural events, recreation, location.
I did have a problem finding a hairstylist but that worked itself out just fine.
I'm black and I'm just going to be frank, it comes down to economics. Plain and simple, a majority of black people just cannot afford to live out in Northern Virginia. Prince George's County and DC (mainly SE) are much more affordable. There was a statistic that came out a few weeks ago that stated whites on average they have wealth about 20 times more than blacks in this nation. When you hear figures like that, it's pretty obvious that a majority of black people just can't afford to live like our white counterparts. I do think there are a few blacks who just enjoy the idea of living around others who look like them even though they have the money to move elsewhere, but then you have individuals like myself and my wife, who would rather live in a diverse area. We would just prefer to live in a much more diverse population as opposed to one that is homogeneous. With that said, the only reason why we aren't currently living in NoVA is finances. If property value was so bad in PG County, we would have been there yesterday. Everybody is different. It all depends on what you value. If you value living around people who look like you, you prefer having more house for your money, and/or you enjoy certain ethnic qualities that are unique to being around certain cultures then as a black person you are less likely to move to NoVA.
I rented in South Arlington, Alexandria, Kingstowne and McLean for many years before I bought my first home in the Ft. Washington area. When I went house shopping with my under $300k budget I mainly looked in DC, Alexandria, Arlington, Sterling, Herndon, Reston and Fort Washington. Why did I choose MD over Nova? First and foremost as a single woman at the time I wanted to be as close as I could be to DC nightlife, NoVa jobs and an abundant amount of single men of color AND it had to be a nice sized house and yard within my budget. I also wanted Metro to be an option for transportation. Montgomery was an inconvenient commute to my job in Tysons and felt overcongested and I didn't see anything close-in that I wanted. In DC, the houses in my range had tiny rooms, street parking that I'd be lucky to find a spot when I got home and just didn't feel worth the money.
All the close-in parts of NoVa did not give me enough house for the money. That sent me looking out in the Sterling/Herndon/Reston area where I saw more house and land and a great commute to Tysons but worried about being in suburbia as a single woman when that was not my lifestyle. Fortunately, I decided it would be a dating life killer to move out there because within a year of moving to Ft. Wash I met my husband.
I was looking for the room of a suburbia house but in a neighborhood with an urban feel that did not feel like a scene out of Leave it to Beaver. That is exactly what I have right now on the Oxon Hill/Ft. Wash. border. The only place in NoVa that has any kind of urban edge is Arlington and I couldn't afford to buy anything decent there at the time. I rented there for over a decade and loved it. The rest of NoVa is soulless cookie-cutter suburbia hell in my view for anyone who is not into that. Arlington is my ideal place to live in NoVa. Years later married with a kid and more income Arlington is now doable and may very well be where we end up when we move now that we have schools to consider in a few years. I never even consider Montgomery...my husband and I both work in NoVa now whereas we both used to work in DC and I see the commuters going back and forth over the American Legion and it looks hellish....I prefer my commute to Ft. Wash. over that even if technically miles wise it is closer. Howard County way too far....not an option.
Another possibly reason is that with a young child, being near family is a plus for the support. My husband's family are all mainly in PG and DC and some of my family have relocated near us in PG from the midwest (rent here in PG is already almost double what they are used to paying in the midwest) to assist with childcare. For many AA in the area, this could be a consideration....choosing to live close to family and friends. I do not want to be isolated too far away from our core base of friends and family.
Arlington has the urban edge, good public transport, good schools, diversity, close-in, close to DC, close to NoVa jobs, low crime...I can't think of much I don't like about it....that said it is one of the most expensive places to live in the area. Houses comparable to what I have now would be in the $800k+ range. Also after researching diverse public schools in NoVa, Herndon had one of the highest percentage of black students in Fairfax. As I work not far away I do notice a decent % of us when I am running errands in the area. Though I like the diversity, it is too far out for my tastes and feels like suburbia hell.
On the affordability of houses, when I was buying my home my non-black colleagues at work were also buying their first homes. We all made the same salary but I was looking at $300k or less and they were looking at $500-$600k. Every single one of them that were buying homes in the $500k+ range had family financial support for college, grad school, wedding, house downpayment, etc. and/or a spouse making $250k+. I think this helps to make such a first home purchase in your early 30s an option and opens up a wider range of neighborhoods you can afford to buy in. For many AA, this kind of financial support is often not available and hence we start off further behind with more school loan debt and less savings. This is not meant to be a 'whoa as me' comment but it is just a fact for most I know. And though there are some who were irresponsible and blew their money with bad choices, this is not the case for all. Frankly I do not have any professional black friends who are into rims, expensive cars, or similar stereotypes of why many may think they have little savings to prepare for a home purchase in a better neighborhood. They do not have it because they did it all on their own with help along the way from credit and loans and not free family assistance. They may be the first to have gone to college in their family, the first to not live check to check, and the first to own a home. There are many like myself who lived below their means but a lack of family financial cash infusion throughout your 20s and 30s means you start off behind the curve despite making the same amount of money.
Another Excellent Post. I especially like reading your posts because you were a single black professional woman who found her prince :-). Many of the things you write are pertinent to me
Oh how often I hear this comment. Let me break it down like I always do for the fallacy that it is. First, I've rarely met anyone here that was African or from the Islands that didn't come from a educated family or came here with more resources and family support than I had as a native that grew up in poverty and as the first to go past high school. I am sure there are some examples of those who came here with $20 in their pocket and made it happen but that is not the typical situation in the DC area. Those cultures have similar struggles with poverty, crime, undereducation etc. that some of the native black population faces here. The difference is that the worst off among them usually never make it through immigration and to the US shores and are back in their home countries where you never get to see their issues. Those with the most education, intelligence, abilities, credentials, educated parents, money, and a built in support base in the US basically the best shot at success here are what you commonly see represented in this area in the African and Caribbean cultures. Second, many are coming from countries where they are the homogeneous majority, not the minority. That in itself leads to a level of empowerment, strong self identity and connection to an actual land they can call home where they have relatives and a history and a strong culture, being educated in a place where you everyone is deemed capable and you don't need No Child Left Behind to make sure there is no white/black/latino achievement gap, higher self-esteem, the predominant image of success and beauty in your country are people who look just like you, less discrimination based on race since they grow up being the majority...you have no idea how much that makes those from those cultures apples and oranges as compared to the native black experience in America...so please stop pitting us against each other with that argument.
Finally, the only relevant thing about that comment would be comparing their levels of homeownership in NoVa to native black Americans and the reasoning behind how they can afford a $500-$700k home in NoVa during late 20s and early 30s age range when a native black American at that same stage finds it more affordable to stay in PG or elsewhere for a home with typically more land and sq footage that is $200-$500k. Perhaps they too got family support or perhaps it is more acceptable in the culture to stay at home as a grown professional and save all your money toward a home purchase (as I have seen many Asian colleagues do) or perhaps they do not come here with the mental baggage about living in Virginia vs. Maryland as a person with dark skin or perhaps they choose to live where there is a large number of people from their Island/Continent/Country. I don't know, but that would be the only relevant line of commentary to this topic in my view.
I tried to rep you again for this post but was told to spread it around.
Being African, I agree with many of the things you wrote, particularly regarding education and growing up in a society where there were no stereotypes associated with being black.
I came to this country with a clear, open heart but after living in this country for so long, witnessing racism and being treated as if I were a stereotype, I have changed ... quite a bit
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