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Obviously, Trump's win was absolutely astonishing to everyone who didn't support him, like me (and maybe also to those who did). My opinion of him hasn't changed. I guess now I know how Republicans and conservatives felt in 2008.
It is a wake-up call for progressives, though--that we need to take a dose of our own advice in terms of giving credence to the emotions of all our fellow Americans.
We have to listen to the people in rural America and stop dismissing them as ignorant rednecks because of their views. That isn't just the requirement to win the next election; it's a moral imperative. These are our fellow Americans; if we want them to care about inner-city blacks, poor Hispanics, or refugees from wherever, it's a two-way street. Respect always is.
When we say to ourselves, "I love America," we have to try not to picture just the people like us, who live where and how we live. The city people who drink Starbucks, drive European cars, and eat exotic foods.
All Trump supporters are not all racists, notwithstanding that just about all racists seem to support Trump. Just like 95% of terrorists these days are Muslim, but 99% of Muslims are not terrorists, and the vast majority of serial killers are white guys, but most of us--and by the way, I'm so white I could be a ceiling paint--don't kill anything more than a bag of potato chips.
And while our rural compatriots may be wrong about some or even many of the facts, they're not wrong about ALL the facts. Their emotion and sense of being left behind is real and valid. And we need to care.
I don't agree it's illegal immigrants who took all the manufacturing jobs (versus guys like Trump)--but we should put ourselves in the shoes of the 50-something white guy in rural Ohio who just got laid off and can't find work. He knows somebody screwed him. And he's right. Same for the gal who's working two jobs and not enough hours to put food on the table. The way they see it, eight years of Obama didn't improve things for them. Is that Obama's fault? I'd say it's not (given the limited power of any president)--but when people get desperate they'll try anything new to see if it works.
Someone on TV said Trump is the Molotov cocktail thrown at the establishment by those left behind in the new economy, and I think that's exactly right.
I know some of my fellow coastal professionals will look at those blue-collar folks and say, "It's a new economy, and those jobs aren't coming back. Just get retrained." But that takes a lot of time and money. That laid-off factory guy probably has overdue medical bills and a mortgage he can't afford. He can't just forego having an income while he goes to welding school or does a plumbing apprenticeship for 2-3 years. Or, God forbid, takes four years to get a liberal arts degree.
So what do we do to help? Some would say to just cut the taxes of that laid-off factory worker and the woman working two low-paying jobs. Others would say we need stronger unions. Others would say we need to punish companies for relocating factories overseas. Or that the federal government should put billions into some new version of the Civilian Conservation Corps--which put thousands to work during the Great Depression--and pay for it by raising taxes on corporations and billionaires.
What disappoints me is that Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren (both being from lower-middle-class households) really did talk about economic inequality in their visits to non-coastal America--but their message only reached those who already supported them. I'm not sure why. Was it his accent? Was it her reputation as a "liberal"? Would the same policies promoted on the stump by Jim Webb been met with support in the small towns of the plains? Does it take a folksy guy from Arkansas to have a chance at being heard when you're a Democrat?
Of course, it's hard to have a chance when so much of America has been convinced that even on basic facts, none of the mainstream newspapers are to be believed--only Breitbart, the Blaze, Drudge, and their ilk.
I hope the office of the presidency somehow transforms Trump, as unlikely as that is. Barring that, I hope the saner minds of his party--which as we know now controls both houses of Congress--put the brakes on his overly general, constantly changing policy ideas.
Because if they don't, this is their baby now.
And for those of us who support economic progressivism, whether Democrats or independents (as I am), we need to think about who among potential 2020 candidates has just as much credibility in rural and small-town America as they do in the America we're more familiar with.
Last edited by Carlingtonian; 11-10-2016 at 07:44 AM..
Obviously, Trump's win was absolutely astonishing to everyone who didn't support him, like me (and maybe also to those who did). My opinion of him hasn't changed. I guess now I know how Republicans and conservatives felt in 2008.
It is a wake-up call for progressives, though--that we need to take a dose of our own advice in terms of giving credence to the emotions of all our fellow Americans.
We have to listen to the people in rural America and stop dismissing them as ignorant rednecks because of their views. That isn't just the requirement to win the next election; it's a moral imperative. These are our fellow Americans; if we want them to care about inner-city blacks, poor Hispanics, or refugees from wherever, it's a two-way street. Respect always is.
All Trump supporters are not all racists, notwithstanding that just about all racists seem to support Trump. Just like 95% of terrorists these days are Muslim, but 99% of Muslims are not terrorists, and 90% of serial killers are white guys, but most of us don't kill anything more than a bag of potato chips.
And while our rural compatriots may be wrong about some or even most of the facts, their emotion and sense of being left behind is rooted in reality.
I don't agree it's illegal immigrants who took all the manufacturing jobs (versus guys like Trump)--but we should put ourselves in the shoes of the 50-something white guy in rural Ohio who just got laid off and can't find work. He knows somebody screwed him. And he's right. Same for the gal who's working two jobs and not enough hours to put food on the table. The way they see it, eight years of Obama didn't improve things for them. Is that Obama's fault? I'd say it's not (given the limited power of any president)--but when people get desperate they'll try anything new to see if it works.
Someone on TV said Trump is the Molotov cocktail thrown at the establishment by those left behind in the new economy, and I think that's exactly right.
I know some of my fellow coastal professionals will look at those blue-collar folks and say, "It's a new economy, and those jobs aren't coming back. Just get retrained." But that takes a lot of time and money. That laid-off factory guy probably has overdue medical bills and a mortgage he can't afford. He can't just forego having an income while he goes to welding school or does a plumbing apprenticeship for 2-3 years. Or, God forbid, takes four years to get a liberal arts degree.
So what do we do to help? Some would say to just cut the taxes of that laid-off factory worker and the woman working two low-paying jobs. Others would say we need stronger unions. Others would say we need to punish companies for relocating factories overseas. Or that the federal government should put billions into some new version of the Civilian Conservation Corps--which put thousands to work during the Great Depression--and pay for it by raising taxes on corporations and billionaires.
What disappoints me is that Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren (both being from lower-middle-class households) really did talk about economic inequality in their visits to non-coastal America--but their message only reached those who already supported them. I'm not sure why. Was it his accent? Was it her reputation as a "liberal"? Would the same policies promoted on the stump by Jim Webb been met with support in the small towns of the plains? Does it take a folksy guy from Arkansas to have a chance at being heard when you're a Democrat?
Of course, it's hard to have a chance when so much of America has been convinced that even on basic facts, none of the mainstream newspapers are to be believed--only Breitbart, the Blaze, Drudge, and their ilk.
I hope the office of the presidency somehow transforms Trump, as unlikely as that is. Barring that, I hope the saner minds of his party--which as we know now controls both houses of Congress--put the brakes on his overly general, constantly changing policy ideas.
Because if they don't, this is their baby now.
And for those of us who support economic progressivism, whether Democrats or independents (as I am), we need to think about who among potential 2020 candidates has just as much credibility in rural and small-town America as they do in the America we're more familiar with.
Lots of good points but one that I think you overlooked: Obamacare
Obamacare premiums, deductibles etc are having an enormous impact on a lot of middle class Americans. And, along with that the arrogant, overbearing way it was passed. Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer and Jim Clyburn parading through Capitol Hill with that gigantic gavel left a very, very bitter taste in "flyover country". I heard a good analogy: If you force enough crap down someone's throat, eventually they barf.
Carl., I appreciate the candor & sentiment in your post. I just respectfully wanted to address this one number u threw out ^.
Other than Hollywood, I've never seen any institution advance the idea that 90% of serial killers are White ?
I'm linking an overview that puts the number around 50%. I believe this idea that White men have a monopoly on serial killing is a slanderous, inaccurate generalization from anti-White bigots.
Lots of good points but one that I think you overlooked: Obamacare
Obamacare premiums, deductibles etc are having an enormous impact on a lot of middle class Americans. And, along with that the arrogant, overbearing way it was passed. Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer and Jim Clyburn parading through Capitol Hill with that gigantic gavel left a very, very bitter taste in "flyover country". I heard a good analogy: If you force enough crap down someone's throat, eventually they barf.
Health care costs have been a huge problem hit over a decade. Obamacare has its issues but it's also a scapegoat that the insurance companies can point to instead of admitting they are making profits through the roof.
Obviously, Trump's win was absolutely astonishing to everyone who didn't support him, like me (and maybe also to those who did). My opinion of him hasn't changed. I guess now I know how Republicans and conservatives felt in 2008.
It is a wake-up call for progressives, though--that we need to take a dose of our own advice in terms of giving credence to the emotions of all our fellow Americans.
We have to listen to the people in rural America and stop dismissing them as ignorant rednecks because of their views. That isn't just the requirement to win the next election; it's a moral imperative. These are our fellow Americans; if we want them to care about inner-city blacks, poor Hispanics, or refugees from wherever, it's a two-way street. Respect always is.
When we say to ourselves, "I love America," we have to try not to picture just the people like us, who live where and how we live. The city people who drink Starbucks, drive European cars, and eat exotic foods.
All Trump supporters are not all racists, notwithstanding that just about all racists seem to support Trump. Just like 95% of terrorists these days are Muslim, but 99% of Muslims are not terrorists, and the vast majority of serial killers are white guys, but most of us--and by the way, I'm so white I could be a ceiling paint--don't kill anything more than a bag of potato chips.
And while our rural compatriots may be wrong about some or even many of the facts, they're not wrong about ALL the facts. Their emotion and sense of being left behind is real and valid. And we need to care.
I don't agree it's illegal immigrants who took all the manufacturing jobs (versus guys like Trump)--but we should put ourselves in the shoes of the 50-something white guy in rural Ohio who just got laid off and can't find work. He knows somebody screwed him. And he's right. Same for the gal who's working two jobs and not enough hours to put food on the table. The way they see it, eight years of Obama didn't improve things for them. Is that Obama's fault? I'd say it's not (given the limited power of any president)--but when people get desperate they'll try anything new to see if it works.
Someone on TV said Trump is the Molotov cocktail thrown at the establishment by those left behind in the new economy, and I think that's exactly right.
I know some of my fellow coastal professionals will look at those blue-collar folks and say, "It's a new economy, and those jobs aren't coming back. Just get retrained." But that takes a lot of time and money. That laid-off factory guy probably has overdue medical bills and a mortgage he can't afford. He can't just forego having an income while he goes to welding school or does a plumbing apprenticeship for 2-3 years. Or, God forbid, takes four years to get a liberal arts degree.
So what do we do to help? Some would say to just cut the taxes of that laid-off factory worker and the woman working two low-paying jobs. Others would say we need stronger unions. Others would say we need to punish companies for relocating factories overseas. Or that the federal government should put billions into some new version of the Civilian Conservation Corps--which put thousands to work during the Great Depression--and pay for it by raising taxes on corporations and billionaires.
What disappoints me is that Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren (both being from lower-middle-class households) really did talk about economic inequality in their visits to non-coastal America--but their message only reached those who already supported them. I'm not sure why. Was it his accent? Was it her reputation as a "liberal"? Would the same policies promoted on the stump by Jim Webb been met with support in the small towns of the plains? Does it take a folksy guy from Arkansas to have a chance at being heard when you're a Democrat?
Of course, it's hard to have a chance when so much of America has been convinced that even on basic facts, none of the mainstream newspapers are to be believed--only Breitbart, the Blaze, Drudge, and their ilk.
I hope the office of the presidency somehow transforms Trump, as unlikely as that is. Barring that, I hope the saner minds of his party--which as we know now controls both houses of Congress--put the brakes on his overly general, constantly changing policy ideas.
Because if they don't, this is their baby now.
And for those of us who support economic progressivism, whether Democrats or independents (as I am), we need to think about who among potential 2020 candidates has just as much credibility in rural and small-town America as they do in the America we're more familiar with.
Completely agreed. I wish I could rep this comment a million times.
This will also be my last time speaking about this because it's done, Trump won fair and square and I will accept that. I am, however, glad that I live in a progressive region that is able to see through the "cars salesman" dialogue that Mr. Trump tends to rely on.
Having said that, like I said a few months ago, his supporters I feel for in a way because they're being exploited. Not all of them but some of them. He can't bring back manufacturing jobs, the industrial age is long gone and that's a reality that needs to be faced. The problem, and what makes this so complex is I don't think anyone really has an answer on how to move those parts of the country forward. We've evolved to where technology has taken over and most jobs, well paying jobs at least, are outside or within major cities and require some sort of post high school education. So Trump will definitely need to figure out how to fix this problem - it's essential that he at least try to as it was one of the main central points of his campaign and probably one of the main reasons he won the election.
I think this situation has been a wake up call for many of us who live in our own worlds. I'm guilty of it. There are, across the board, real problems in this country that need to be addressed and I think we've gone a long time pushing those problems beneath the surface to pretend as if they weren't there. I don't have much expectation of a Trump presidency. I hope he will be able to rise to the occasion and learn to have a bit of professionalism, diplomacy, integrity and decorum - which he severely lacks. But he's also an ambitious guy that seems to thrive when he's the under dog so I hope for his success which is intrinsic to our success as a nation.
Obviously, Trump's win was absolutely astonishing to everyone who didn't support him, like me (and maybe also to those who did). My opinion of him hasn't changed. I guess now I know how Republicans and conservatives felt in 2008.
It is a wake-up call for progressives, though--that we need to take a dose of our own advice in terms of giving credence to the emotions of all our fellow Americans.
We have to listen to the people in rural America and stop dismissing them as ignorant rednecks because of their views. That isn't just the requirement to win the next election; it's a moral imperative. These are our fellow Americans; if we want them to care about inner-city blacks, poor Hispanics, or refugees from wherever, it's a two-way street. Respect always is.
When we say to ourselves, "I love America," we have to try not to picture just the people like us, who live where and how we live. The city people who drink Starbucks, drive European cars, and eat exotic foods.
All Trump supporters are not all racists, notwithstanding that just about all racists seem to support Trump. Just like 95% of terrorists these days are Muslim, but 99% of Muslims are not terrorists, and the vast majority of serial killers are white guys, but most of us--and by the way, I'm so white I could be a ceiling paint--don't kill anything more than a bag of potato chips.
And while our rural compatriots may be wrong about some or even many of the facts, they're not wrong about ALL the facts. Their emotion and sense of being left behind is real and valid. And we need to care.
I don't agree it's illegal immigrants who took all the manufacturing jobs (versus guys like Trump)--but we should put ourselves in the shoes of the 50-something white guy in rural Ohio who just got laid off and can't find work. He knows somebody screwed him. And he's right. Same for the gal who's working two jobs and not enough hours to put food on the table. The way they see it, eight years of Obama didn't improve things for them. Is that Obama's fault? I'd say it's not (given the limited power of any president)--but when people get desperate they'll try anything new to see if it works.
Someone on TV said Trump is the Molotov cocktail thrown at the establishment by those left behind in the new economy, and I think that's exactly right.
I know some of my fellow coastal professionals will look at those blue-collar folks and say, "It's a new economy, and those jobs aren't coming back. Just get retrained." But that takes a lot of time and money. That laid-off factory guy probably has overdue medical bills and a mortgage he can't afford. He can't just forego having an income while he goes to welding school or does a plumbing apprenticeship for 2-3 years. Or, God forbid, takes four years to get a liberal arts degree.
So what do we do to help? Some would say to just cut the taxes of that laid-off factory worker and the woman working two low-paying jobs. Others would say we need stronger unions. Others would say we need to punish companies for relocating factories overseas. Or that the federal government should put billions into some new version of the Civilian Conservation Corps--which put thousands to work during the Great Depression--and pay for it by raising taxes on corporations and billionaires.
What disappoints me is that Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren (both being from lower-middle-class households) really did talk about economic inequality in their visits to non-coastal America--but their message only reached those who already supported them. I'm not sure why. Was it his accent? Was it her reputation as a "liberal"? Would the same policies promoted on the stump by Jim Webb been met with support in the small towns of the plains? Does it take a folksy guy from Arkansas to have a chance at being heard when you're a Democrat?
Of course, it's hard to have a chance when so much of America has been convinced that even on basic facts, none of the mainstream newspapers are to be believed--only Breitbart, the Blaze, Drudge, and their ilk.
I hope the office of the presidency somehow transforms Trump, as unlikely as that is. Barring that, I hope the saner minds of his party--which as we know now controls both houses of Congress--put the brakes on his overly general, constantly changing policy ideas.
Because if they don't, this is their baby now.
And for those of us who support economic progressivism, whether Democrats or independents (as I am), we need to think about who among potential 2020 candidates has just as much credibility in rural and small-town America as they do in the America we're more familiar with.
Glad to see some common sense about the issues, very rational thought process. Personally, I am what one would call "well educated," but very, very connected to rural life so I hopefully can see a decent cross section. You want to know what I think you missed just a little bit? Progressivism nearly always includes some kind of state CONTROL--it has to by its nature. Wanna know what small town rural America doesn't like?--someone telling them what to do, especially politicians they have zero respect for. That's why bernie/warren weren't able to resonate with them-too lefty.
I hope Trump does attend to the country's poor infrastructure and that a government squarely in control of the Republicans can work together to achieve that goal.
Otherwise, I have no idea what Trump could accomplish politically, and I worry that a Trump White House will be like so many any other Trump ventures we've witnessed over the years (DC-NY shuttles, casinos, and any number of other buildings) where his name gets plastered on the side for a while, the business goes belly up, and the only one who comes out ahead is Trump himself.
Overall, he and his supporters have made many groups feel uneasy and without a home in America for the first time in their lives, and NoVa itself is part of the "swamp" that his supporters claim to want to "drain." Getting elected President by treating a campaign like a reality TV show in which you win by getting a large segment of the population to throw their fellow Americans under a bus is not a promising start.
I hope Trump does attend to the country's poor infrastructure and that a government squarely in control of the Republicans can work together to achieve that goal.
Otherwise, I have no idea what Trump could accomplish politically, and I worry that a Trump White House will be like so many any other Trump ventures we've witnessed over the years (DC-NY shuttles, casinos, and any number of other buildings) where his name gets plastered on the side for a while, the business goes belly up, and the only one who comes out ahead is Trump himself.
Overall, he and his supporters have made many groups feel uneasy and without a home in America for the first time in their lives, and NoVa itself is part of the "swamp" that his supporters claim to want to "drain." Getting elected President by treating a campaign like a reality TV show in which you win by getting a large segment of the population to throw their fellow Americans under a bus is not a promising start.
The government doing LESS is always a good option to me, so maybe him not getting much done is a positive...
As far as the last paragraph, that's exactly the push that much of rural/middle america has felt in the last 20 years ("uneasy and without a home in America")--now that the shoe is on the other foot, maybe both sides should try to meet in the middle a little better for future elections.
This could turn out to be a good wake up call with not much getting done in the meantime.
Jumping on the "last thing I'll say about this" thread, because I think it's good...
Now that it's over and I have spent 24 hours coming to grips with it, I have reached acceptance. I find that I'm filled with some sort of hope that Trump's campaign has just been a circus of sorts and that he can actually do something. I'm generally a positive person, or I like feeling positive, so I want to actually hope for the best for the next 4 years and see something get done. To be honest, I was dreading 4 years of "obstructionism" and lawsuits by the Republicans over Clinton and it's a bit of relief to think that "well, at least we won't have that..." I am looking for the bright spot.
I will say, though, that once I learned of his win, surprisingly, I actually had a true panic attack, in the middle of night. Heart pounding, everything. That's never happened to me over politics before and I had stop and sort out my feelings and admit that I actually have fear over this. I can't articulate it. I just think it has to do with his rhetoric. I"m going to put it aside and assume that it was "for show." The last time I felt horrible about an election was the first time Bill Clinton won but it was a regular kind of feeling horrible.
While I'm seeing a lot of crazy stuff posted on the internet by the losing side, which I don't abide by at all, I also have seen many positive, accepting posts from Clinton's side, like Carlingtonian above. Many have said they will treat him with respect and honor him in as he is the president. I guess my last remaining bitterness comes from the fact that I don't think our current president ever got that nor do I think had the election results been opposite, with some of states being as close as they were, that Trump or his supporters conceded gracefully. That part really bothers me.
Jumping on the "last thing I'll say about this" thread, because I think it's good...
Now that it's over and I have spent 24 hours coming to grips with it, I have reached acceptance. I find that I'm filled with some sort of hope that Trump's campaign has just been a circus of sorts and that he can actually do something. I'm generally a positive person, or I like feeling positive, so I want to actually hope for the best for the next 4 years and see something get done. To be honest, I was dreading 4 years of "obstructionism" and lawsuits by the Republicans over Clinton and it's a bit of relief to think that "well, at least we won't have that..." I am looking for the bright spot.
I will say, though, that once I learned of his win, surprisingly, I actually had a true panic attack, in the middle of night. Heart pounding, everything. That's never happened to me over politics before and I had stop and sort out my feelings and admit that I actually have fear over this. I can't articulate it. I just think it has to do with his rhetoric. I"m going to put it aside and assume that it was "for show." The last time I felt horrible about an election was the first time Bill Clinton won but it was a regular kind of feeling horrible.
While I'm seeing a lot of crazy stuff posted on the internet by the losing side, which I don't abide by at all, I also have seen many positive, accepting posts from Clinton's side, like Carlingtonian above. Many have said they will treat him with respect and honor him in as he is the president. I guess my last remaining bitterness comes from the fact that I don't think our current president ever got that nor do I think had the election results been opposite, with some of states being as close as they were, that Trump or his supporters conceded gracefully. That part really bothers me.
I absolutely agree with this post and Carl's above.
Trump was NOT my candidate (neither was Clinton), but he IS my President-elect. Like any other President whose views I did not share, I will respect the position and respect the person. Until I see otherwise, I will continue to have hope for our future and hope he will do things to move us forwards and not backwards.
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