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I don't know what anyone else calls it, but I call it crap. Putting something totally unrelated in ANY bill is wrong. If it can not stand on it's own, maybe it's not a good idea.
I don't know what anyone else calls it, but I call it crap. Putting something totally unrelated in ANY bill is wrong. If it can not stand on it's own, maybe it's not a good idea.
ABSOLUTELY! Most politicians have no guts so they hide controversial legislation in bills like this to "sneak" them past the public...
As for Band, the kids that are in band get to miss SO much instruction time and, at some schools, seem to take precedence over ACADEMIC subjects. Other teachers must suffer whenever band students are taken out of their classroom for concerts, rehearsals, etc. Let kids learn how to play musical instruments and throw a ball around on their OWN time AFTER school. And, ultimately, teacher unions only ensure due process for their members. Despite nonsense from media talking heads, adminsitrators have all the tools they need to fire an ineffective teacher IF they have the intestinal fortitude to use those procedures!!!
Teachers LOVE to challenge their students. But wrong-headed programs like "No Child Left Behind" make doing that difficult or impossible. We're standardized testing our kids to death instead of teaching them critical thinking skills. And teachers CANNOT make up for the kids that don't come to school ready to learn. Why are teachers getting the blame for social problems that are beyond their ability to fix???
First, band. Ok, so you seem to think band is a waste of class time. Well, I can also bring about studies that prove that children in music and arts programs do better in their schooling than those who don't. So, as a lifelong band member and alumni, please don't make it sound like band is causing the problems of children not learning their reading, writing, and arithmetic. Also, I have rarely, if ever missed academic class time for band class or band extra-curricular. Heck, we had study hall before we could go out for marching practice everyday.
Now, to the topic at hand. I only wonder if school boards don't have the "intestinal fortitude" because of the unions who come to smear them when they try to fire a teacher. As elected officials, they can be quote/un-quote fired from their jobs by the voters. So why not let bad teachers go if the community comes to a consensus that the teacher isn't doing his/her job?
I'll agree NCLB was a disaster and causes huge disparities in districts. Look at Ohio. To me, it seems districts that are more racially diverse get a harder track to a decent school rating, and those that are homogeneous (usually white and/or wealthy) have an easier time. And whoever does say, well, just don't look at the state report card is an idiot because most people, especially out-of-staters use that data when picking a place to move to. I use Shaker Heights as an example, because despite its stellar rep, it doesn't do as well in the state report card as Solon.
Now, I personally think both sides are going about this whole mess in the wrong manner. Teachers must answer to the tax payers, but at the same time have some protections. Still, those proctections should not trump voting tax payers needs. The other option for Wisconson and Ohio in this whole mess is to just layoff a bunch of these people. Then the economic problems really begin. Remember, this isn't just our state, but many, many more with even more to come.
It shocks me that the attitude of so many in the country and state continue to support issues that undermine the workers (blue or white collar) to give more power to the already powerful. SB5 is not just a bill meant to undermine some of the most important jobs (police, fire, teachers etc.) but it is also a massive power grab by the Republican establishment. Unions have done so much for the workers of America (8 hour workday, benifits, safe workplace and living wages) yet they are looked down upon by so many. Yes, there are the occasional weak links that get protection from a union but without them abuse from administration is almost certain. I have been a union rep and president and far more cases are brought when people are treated unfairly than the protection of those who do not perform. School boards members are often not interested in making the school better but rather are in power to push their agenda (creating sports for their kids, lowering taxes by getting rid of classes that are not tested, or targeting a teacher that they personally don't like). These members do not know the kids in the school and most cannot name 1/2 the teachers in their district but have nearly unlimited power. Unions allow workers to have some sense of security which is important because unlike a private sector job experience is not a good thing. All new teachers must gain a Master's degree in 10 years and all teachers must have several personal development hours to renew their license. I can't remember the last time that I went home without several hours of work and have never had a summer off where I don't have to seek new training. With my masters degree and tens of thousands of dollars of finacial aid debt I will be unable to find another teaching job because I would cost too much. Why am I the target of so much angst...I do my job and do it well and have thousands of students (current and past) that would agree with me.
Teachers' salaries in Wisconsin: $89,500 salary and benefits. The average nonpublic sector worker in America makes $61,000 a year in salary and benefits.
We can't have this kind of disparity between the people who are paying the people who are living off of them. It's not sustainable...
Can't compare an average that includes all sorts of occupations with teaching. Compare apples to apples, such as comparing an occupation that also requires a Masters degree to teaching. Don't forget that not only teachers are affected, but firefighters etc. What you see as "living off of them" I see as providing a valuable service. When I lived in WI, I started at 41K with a Masters degree and several years of experience. Immediately, I was required to pay for an additional 6 credit hours of college on top of the Masters in order to maintain the licensure in WI. Yup, I was sure raking it in...
Exactly, and those jobs will pay low enough that a family will qualify for food stamps. Last I checked starting salary at a private school was about 20K and I have a $1000 a month bill to pay off my student loans. Republicans ran on job creation SB5 will be a job killer. I pay my taxes and through my purchases I help the economy. I drive a 92' Ford F-150 with more rust than metal and my wife has a mid-90's bonneville with issues as well. We are always just getting by even with our Union protection why are you even remotely for taking away security for fellow Ohioans that do important jobs to teach and protect others? We have become a me first society and America cannot ever recover when we don't look out for each other. Most Unions I know have taken wage freezes and pay into our benefit packages which have also diminished. We are losing good teachers because of choices made by administrations and school boards. We are seeing less police on our streets and all of this is bad for America and Ohio. Stand up for your fellow Ohioans and demand SB5 be tabled before its too late.
All of this talk about the "Poor Teachers" in WI and elsewhere... no sale here. Who else gets 2 weeks at Christmas, 1 week in the Spring, every minor holiday, and 10 weeks off in the Summer??? Teachers are great, God bless them, but the fact of the matter is that they work part-time! Why do they deserve a full-time salary?
None of those times are paid vacations or holidays.
Many times I see and hear people saying, "I am paying the wages of those public employees, so I say they should give up the protections they have worked for and let the public (me) determine what they should have."
OK, If you are the teller at the local bank, where does the money come from for your wages. And if you are the cashier at the gas station or the supermarket, where do your wages come from. If you are the doctor, or the lawyer, or the pharmacist, or the factory worker, or the farmer, where do your wages ultimately come from. They come from each and every one of us who buys your products or uses your services, private-sector and public employee alike. Why in the world would you want to cut off the income source that helps put food on YOUR table.
As Crew Chief stated earlier "We've managed to work ourselves into this envy of what the other guy is making. And the thinking is "Since I don't have it. YOU shouldn't either". We should be working to keep the tide rising for everyone. Not wanting everyone to sinkl into the same low wage "race to the bottom". We should definitely be working to make sure that everyone who currently doesn't, has a living wage and benefits, NOT trying to take it away from those who do.
First, band. Ok, so you seem to think band is a waste of class time. Well, I can also bring about studies that prove that children in music and arts programs do better in their schooling than those who don't. So, as a lifelong band member and alumni, please don't make it sound like band is causing the problems of children not learning their reading, writing, and arithmetic. Also, I have rarely, if ever missed academic class time for band class or band extra-curricular. Heck, we had study hall before we could go out for marching practice everyday.
Now, to the topic at hand. I only wonder if school boards don't have the "intestinal fortitude" because of the unions who come to smear them when they try to fire a teacher. As elected officials, they can be quote/un-quote fired from their jobs by the voters. So why not let bad teachers go if the community comes to a consensus that the teacher isn't doing his/her job?
I'll agree NCLB was a disaster and causes huge disparities in districts. Look at Ohio. To me, it seems districts that are more racially diverse get a harder track to a decent school rating, and those that are homogeneous (usually white and/or wealthy) have an easier time. And whoever does say, well, just don't look at the state report card is an idiot because most people, especially out-of-staters use that data when picking a place to move to. I use Shaker Heights as an example, because despite its stellar rep, it doesn't do as well in the state report card as Solon.
Now, I personally think both sides are going about this whole mess in the wrong manner. Teachers must answer to the tax payers, but at the same time have some protections. Still, those proctections should not trump voting tax payers needs. The other option for Wisconson and Ohio in this whole mess is to just layoff a bunch of these people. Then the economic problems really begin. Remember, this isn't just our state, but many, many more with even more to come.
Wrightflyer, I think band is a wonderful activity and is as relevant as any other class. My wife's experience is that her band students get pulled out of class too often for concerts and other band-related activities. Taken with all the other field trips and other interruptions, teaching to her lessson plan can sometimes be a real problem. She feels the same way about any other teacher that feels their time is more important than hers.
I guess we've just never had any experience with teachers who were supported by the union when they should be fired. Bad teachers can (and should be) gotten rid of BEFORE they are tenured. That just doesn't happen as often as it should. Incompetency in management happens just as often in the private sector as the public. But it's just that public sector managers should be far more pro-active about mentoring the good employees and getting rid of the bad ones...
It's still early in the process for SB 5 to be passed so, hopefully, it will end up as something more acceptable than the suggested "strip public employees of their most of their rights" form than it's in now. Yes, public employees (including legislators) should not be exempt from helping to shoulder economic pain. But we must be ever-vigilant that unions don't go the way of the Dodo bird and that the Robber Barons are back to their old tricks again...
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