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All of this talk about the "Poor Teachers" in WI and elsewhere... no sale here. Who else gets 2 weeks at Christmas, 1 week in the Spring, every minor holiday, and 10 weeks off in the Summer??? Teachers are great, God bless them, but the fact of the matter is that they work part-time! Why do they deserve a full-time salary?
Because they have a professional, college degreed job. Who would want to be a teacher if there is no decent salary and benefits? No one that I would want teaching my children. I work in a school district and receive approximately 1/3 less salary then when I worked in the private sector, plus do not get the bonuses I used to receive. I do believe this salary is fair, given the amount of time I have off, but by no means am I overcompensated unless you think a mid 40's salary after 20 years experience is lavish. I may not remain in the schools if Ohio SB 5 passes and yes, I do have other employment options. I can accept financial losses, as Ohio does need to do something about the deficit. I cannot accept the loss of collective bargaining rights.
The teachers don't want to do anything that will challenge the students. Hell, they actually killed the gifted reading classes so they coulds save their useless sports program. Now what's that saying about the schools?
Teachers have no authority to "kill" a program. Or "save" a program for that matter. That would be the school administration. Your anger is misplaced.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdmagana
All of this talk about the "Poor Teachers" in WI and elsewhere... no sale here. Who else gets 2 weeks at Christmas, 1 week in the Spring, every minor holiday, and 10 weeks off in the Summer??? Teachers are great, God bless them, but the fact of the matter is that they work part-time! Why do they deserve a full-time salary?
Teachers' salaries in Wisconsin: $89,500 salary and benefits. The average nonpublic sector worker in America makes $61,000 a year in salary and benefits.
We can't have this kind of disparity between the people who are paying the people who are living off of them. It's not sustainable...
Teachers' salaries in Wisconsin: $89,500 salary and benefits. The average nonpublic sector worker in America makes $61,000 a year in salary and benefits.
We can't have this kind of disparity between the people who are paying the people who are living off of them. It's not sustainable...
Are you comparing an "average nonpublic sector worker" who is a college graduate?
Sec. 3101.01. (A) Male persons of the age of eighteen years, and female persons of the age of sixteen years, not nearer of kin than second cousins, and not having a husband or wife living, may be joined in marriage. A marriage may only be entered into by one man and one woman. A minor shall first obtain the consent of the minor's parents, surviving parent, parent who is designated the residential parent and legal custodian of the minor by a court of competent jurisdiction, guardian, or any one of the following who has been awarded permanent custody of the minor by a court exercising juvenile jurisdiction:
Can someone please tell me why this is in this bill? Is it just usual politician deceit?
Last edited by davery5872; 02-20-2011 at 06:57 AM..
All of this talk about the "Poor Teachers" in WI and elsewhere... no sale here. Who else gets 2 weeks at Christmas, 1 week in the Spring, every minor holiday, and 10 weeks off in the Summer??? Teachers are great, God bless them, but the fact of the matter is that they work part-time! Why do they deserve a full-time salary?
Maybe they need to be on "Time Clocks" like the rest of the working class. No work, no pay, it's simple and clean. Although I am a big advocate of 12 month schools systems for here in the US, make the kids attend school year around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by davery5872
Teachers have no authority to "kill" a program. Or "save" a program for that matter. That would be the school administration. Your anger is misplaced.
No they (the teachers) don't kill programs. But the school board does and the school board also yeilds to the whim of the useless unions and hands out pay raises to everyone in the schools. Freeze the pay and cap them out, put the money into teaching the kids. And shut down all sports prgrams and make the parents who want their kids play sports, pay for 100% of it, (NO TAX DALLORS TO PAY FOR SPORTS). Oh! And what the heck do bus drivers need unions for, they're part-timers?
Are you comparing an "average nonpublic sector worker" who is a college graduate?
Does it really matter? Everyone, including those without college degrees that are in the workforce (enlisted military anyone?) pay those taxes that contribute to the teachers' salary and benefits.
Maybe they need to be on "Time Clocks" like the rest of the working class. No work, no pay, it's simple and clean. Although I am a big advocate of 12 month schools systems for here in the US, make the kids attend school year around.
No they (the teachers) don't kill programs. But the school board does and the school board also yeilds to the whim of the useless unions and hands out pay raises to everyone in the schools. Freeze the pay and cap them out, put the money into teaching the kids. And shut down all sports prgrams and make the parents who want their kids play sports, pay for 100% of it, (NO TAX DALLORS TO PAY FOR SPORTS). Oh! And what the heck do bus drivers need unions for, they're part-timers?
I agree with all of what you are saying. I only take exception with the final point. Perhaps a tiered system based on parents income or networth would work better than everyone paying 100% out of pocket for sports. I'm also assuming activities like band are being thrown into your argument, because I paid extra (not 100%) for band. $400/year extra. My problem is that in a competitive college admissions process, these activities are needed to demonstrate kids have developed in other areas outside the classroom. I'm not talking about giving kids full-rides to college, cause many in high school sports don't get any ride at all. What I'm saying is that poorer families wouldn't be able to afford a 100% payment system and a gap between the have's and have-not's grows even larger.
As for the teachers' situation, perhaps instead of paying more for their benefits, they can give back and pay for some of these kids sports and activities?
I agree with all of what you are saying. I only take exception with the final point. Perhaps a tiered system based on parents income or networth would work better than everyone paying 100% out of pocket for sports. I'm also assuming activities like band are being thrown into your argument, because I paid extra (not 100%) for band. $400/year extra. My problem is that in a competitive college admissions process, these activities are needed to demonstrate kids have developed in other areas outside the classroom. I'm not talking about giving kids full-rides to college, cause many in high school sports don't get any ride at all. What I'm saying is that poorer families wouldn't be able to afford a 100% payment system and a gap between the have's and have-not's grows even larger.
As for the teachers' situation, perhaps instead of paying more for their benefits, they can give back and pay for some of these kids sports and activities?
I'd like to see more money go to programs like Band and anything else that challenges a childs intellect. I would think that more children would have a better chance in college and grad schools through these programs than some sports programs. My neice was heart broken when they shut down the Advance reading Program that she loved so dearly, especially as a Honor Roll student that she is. Now she has to fine other (Thinking) programs to help keep her challeged.
Now with all that being said. If the teachers don't keep up to date with new and more improved teaching standards and want to stay in the same old furrow that they love so much, then yes their pay should be frozen, capped off and stopped. If they don't want to progress with the rest of the world and keep challengeing these kids every day, then the union should not be allowed to step in and help tthe keep their wasted jobs. But, if the union was to help them stay on top of things when it comes to advanced teaching methodes. And help fine programs that help the teachers pay for the extra training (like out of the unions money), then I see the need for the unions. But since all they to do is line their own pockets, not help the school push for more advanced teaching methods and programs for the CHILDREN. Then no, they need to KILL the Collective Bargaining Power that the unions have. Because then all they are only out for is the "ME! ME! ME!" power and they don't care about the kids. And American kids are getting stupid again.
Schools need to be ongoing year around because we in the US are falling behind faster and faster every year and sports need to take the back seat no matter what.
WOW...there's SO much in the above posts that I'd like to address. I don't know where to start.
Maybe with the broader picture; "Those who don't remember history are doomed to repeat it"... At the turn of the 20th century, labor was mistreated and poorly paid by employers. That brought about the labor unions. Right or wrong in their methods and the effect thereof, they DID bring a better standard of living to American workers. Now the pendulum is swinging the other way. Slowly, pay & benefits for labor are eroding. We've managed to work ourselves into this envy of what the other guy is making. And the thinking is "Since I don't have it. YOU shouldn't either". We should be working to keep the tide rising for everyone. Not wanting everyone to sink into the same low wage "race to the bottom". And, yes, ot-of-control spending on MANY things by politicians have gotten us to where we are today.
Teachers are paid on the basis of days that they are in the classroom. Want teachers to work more days? You'll have to pay them more. And teachers spend FAR more time than most people understand of their own time on professional development and other efforts to improve the learning experience for their students and that's BESIDES grading papers and communicating with parents outside school. No, they're not the only occupation that takes work home. But they take home far more than most outside of education are willing to give them credit for.
Earthbound?, My wife and I are with you. She was educated in Germany (that AWFUL Socialist country) She didn't have Title IX or even anything more than phys. ed. She came away from university with a Master's and NO student loan debt. She also wouldn't have gotten there if she hadn't done well. She would LOVE to see better academic standards. She's frustrated with many of the things we do now; "social promotion" where kids are passed to the next grade without being at the current grade level in reading or math skills. Teachers get blamed for many policies and rules that administrators and school boards (and to a lesser extent, clueless parents...) come up with. As for Band, the kids that are in band get to miss SO much instruction time and, at some schools, seem to take precedence over ACADEMIC subjects. Other teachers must suffer whenever band students are taken out of their classroom for concerts, rehearsals, etc. Let kids learn how to play musical instruments and throw a ball around on their OWN time AFTER school. And, ultimately, teacher unions only ensure due process for their members. Despite nonsense from media talking heads, administrators have all the tools they need to fire an ineffective teacher IF they have the intestinal fortitude to use those procedures!!!
Teachers LOVE to challenge their students. But wrong-headed programs like "No Child Left Behind" make doing that difficult or impossible. We're standardized testing our kids to death instead of teaching them critical thinking skills. And teachers CANNOT make up for the kids that don't come to school ready to learn. Why are teachers getting the blame for social problems that are beyond their ability to fix???
Last edited by Crew Chief; 02-21-2011 at 04:18 AM..
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) She didn't have Title IX or even anything more than phys. ed. She came away from university with a Master's and NO student loan debt.
She also wouldn't have gotten there if she hadn't done well. She would LOVE to see better academic standards. She's frustrated with many of the things we do now; "social promotion" where kids are passed to the next grade without being at the current grade level in reading or math skills. Teachers get blamed for many policies and rules that administrators and school boards (and to a lesser extent, clueless parents...) come up with. As for Band, the kids that are in band get to miss SO much instruction time and, at some schools, seem to take precedence over ACADEMIC subjects. Other teachers must suffer whenever band students are taken out of their classroom for concerts, rehearsals, etc. Let kids learn how to play musical instruments and throw a ball around on their OWN time AFTER school. And, ultimately, teacher unions only ensure due process for their members. Despite nonsense from media talking heads, administrators have all the tools they need to fire an ineffective teacher IF they have the intestinal fortitude to use those procedures!!!
