Senate Bill 5 (Cleveland, Reading, Independence: luxury, public schools, calculator)

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

And I'll gladly do it. Teaching should be one of the highest paid careers in this nation. Why do we not give a sh*t about education? Why are we concerned more about what teachers make and how much time they have off than we are about the quality of what they are giving us?

Oh, it's the old Republican ploy of pitting the have-nots and the almost-haves against those a step or two above them on the socio-economic ladder in an attempt to keep everyone's eyes off of their true agenda.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by davery5872

I understand your concern. The current proposal for reforming STRS has teachers paying 13%, maybe 14%, and working 35 years AND until age 65. I have also known people in the private sector that have retired at 50.

And, unlike the STRS, just think what they're going to try to do to those whose pension systems actually have some trouble.

I do not know of any teachers that have retired and returned to teaching in their home state. I have heard of a few teachers retiring and moving to another state to teach.

That's because they usually can't.

STRS is not really set up to have a teacher to both receive benefits and contribute into the retirement system at the same time.

You are correct.

In education, it happens with administrators a lot. I do not think they are part of STRS. Which brings up another question. Does SB 5 prevent school district from paying into administrators retirement plans? Does it cap the board contribution to their health care?

Of COURSE it doesn't!

[davery5872]

Originally Posted by wrightflyer

Fir
I'll agree NCLB was a disaster and causes huge disparities in districts. Look at Ohio. To me, it seems districts that are more racially diverse get a harder track to a decent school rating, and those that are homogeneous (usually white and/or wealthy) have an easier time. And whoever does say, well, just don't look at the state report card is an idiot because most people, especially out-of-staters use that data when picking a place to move to. I use Shaker Heights as an example, because despite its stellar rep, it doesn't do as well in the state report card as Solon.

.

Not really the point of this thread, but that's the dirty little secret no one wants to talk about. When you just consider standardized test scores for white students, the US ranks first in every category. Clearly, we fail as a country in educating non-white students.

[davery5872]

As I was reading through the analysis of SB 5 I found the following:

Prohibits a public employer that is a school district, educational service center, community school, or STEM school from entering into a collective bargaining agreement that does specified things, such as establishing a maximum number of students who may be assigned to a classroom or teacher.

Most collective bargained contracts between teachers and school boards include a maximum number of students per classroom. There are some exceptions, such as music classes, but the is a limit in most situations. SB 5 eliminates all this. If this bill passes, get ready for much larger classes.

Say what you will about teacher unions, but this is one issue (among many IMO) where the unions are spot on. Small classes are better than large classes.

[EarthBound?]

Originally Posted by davery5872

As I was reading through the analysis of SB 5 I found the following:

Prohibits a public employer that is a school district, educational service center, community school, or STEM school from entering into a collective bargaining agreement that does specified things, such as establishing a maximum number of students who may be assigned to a classroom or teacher.

Most collective bargained contracts between teachers and school boards include a maximum number of students per classroom. There are some exceptions, such as music classes, but the is a limit in most situations. SB 5 eliminates all this. If this bill passes, get ready for much larger classes.

Say what you will about teacher unions, but this is one issue (among many IMO) where the unions are spot on. Small classes are better than large classes.

This is so true, maybe people here in the USA need to quit spitting out kids like assembly lines. That seems to be all the welfare riders do all day long .

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by EarthBound?

All the kids that we know that were home schooled are doing great in college. They tend to buckle down and work harder to get that education and not worry about how and who to socialize with. They're not worrying about (seeing and be seen), they want the education as many of them have told me.

And if it's big money that sports draws in, then that's good. Just leave our tax dollors to pay for teaching the kids and let the big money pay for all the sports programs, maintenance & up keep of the fields, transportation to all the event, iniforms, coaches salaries and everything else that goes with it.

And they chose that profession (teaching), so they need to deal with what comes with it. As a truck driver I have to deal with all the idiots out on the hi-ways doing their make-up, texting, flying through the hi-way work zones over the speed limit and not being able to work because of rain or snow. No one twisted my arm to get me to do this job, but it makes me feel good that I helped build this road or that road when I'm driving over them in my car later.

You're completely missing the point here. Teaching has much larger ramifications than many other jobs out there. They have a direct effect on our nation's entire future. Do you really think that further destroying the benefits of teaching means that education is going to stay the same or improve to match other nations that are already far outpacing us? People take for granted that the US has been a superpower and assume that it always will be. Hardly. We start attacking our future, we might as well pack it in and hand the reigns over to China or Russia. Education SHOULD be a priority, and teachers should be valued as highly as doctors. Instead, they spend years getting degrees only to have the general public and gov't work tirelessly to call them worthless. The exact opposite is true.

And you know, we tried the whole corporations-making-the-rules thing. It was that great time in history when we had child labor, sweatshops, and zero benefits. I'm not sure why all of the sudden that this is the standard we want to go back to. This is why unions came about in the first place.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by EarthBound?

This is so true, maybe people here in the USA need to quit spitting out kids like assembly lines. That seems to be all the welfare riders do all day long .

Um, aren't you arguing in favor of eliminating all of this with your support of SB5?

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by davery5872

Not really the point of this thread, but that's the dirty little secret no one wants to talk about. When you just consider standardized test scores for white students, the US ranks first in every category. Clearly, we fail as a country in educating non-white students.

Hey, somebody has to populate the infantry. Those oil fields won't secure themselves.

[EarthBound?]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Um, aren't you arguing in favor of eliminating all of this with your support of SB5?

Yes and no, I don't like unions and never did. But then again, teachers should only get paid during the times (months) that they work. Maybe they need time clocks like the rest of the country uses . Not on the clock, don't get paid, it's simple. Oh, and sport activityies don't count as work, that's play time that they don't need to be paid for.

[wrightflyer]

To those saying pay is not what it should be and that this is a major piece of this crisis, than I say that there are indicators showing pay isn't what solely makes a good teacher or district of teachers.

What I want to know is why some districts, who perform extremly well pay their teachers less on average than districts that don't do as well on standardizers like national merit scholars, state tests, college admission rates of grads?

There's things like parental involvment (of course this is out of the teachers control), but things like in class resources provided by the district are vital as well as overall funding for resources and class space, especially in growing districts. It's not solely a teacher's salary. It's also not like any teacher didn't realize the pay would be difficult, espeically at the beginning. But besides going straight from undergrad to getting a MBA and landing a job, there's little else that pays well at the beginning. I wouldn't count law and medical degrees, as these I see as different.

And finally, where exactly would we as a society come up with an extra, let's say 20-50K for teachers salaries and benefits? TO ME, that sounds like a me, me, me arugment of I need more, of overextension. Taxpayers certainly can't afford to pay for it, nor should they. And I thought teachers and law enforcement are supposed to be public services employees, to serve their abilities and talents in the name of the public good, not for huge personal gain.

However, IMO, this is a problem of everyone over-extending themselves in the fiscal department.