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Well, firstly, I am going to tell the poster who is so threatened by my posts, which he/she has decided to use sarcasm to demean and attack what I say, that I don't tolerate bullying and will not respond to one until he/she decides that I am worthy of respect.
First things first, I honestly did not realize your screen name was Starla"Jane". When I wrote the name "Jane" in the little story, I used it as in "Jane" Doe. So please don't feel as if I was somehow directing some of the comments in regards to Janes actions to you.
The last line was certainly sarcastic, merely because you have unequivocally stated that you were able to control and even eliminate bullying within your classroom. When I called you out on while it may be possible within your class, your class does not encompass the whole world, you responded with the elephant story.
That was followed up on with you making a statement about what you perceived to be the root cause of the issue, namely lack of discipline. What you implied was that other adults within society (I took it as meaning parents, teachers, administrators, etc.) needed to reinforce discipline and consequences among students who lacked it and that is why they bullied other students.
I think it was an interesting assessment, but I was hoping you would answer how you would handle the scenario I posted. The little story I gave is not so far fetched and is probably pretty realistic, it is however something I don't believe a teacher or any adult can "discipline".
Here are some articles on how overprotectiveness harms children:
Excellent post Hopes.
Also let us not forget that there are no more bullies or bullying victims today than there were 30 years ago. There are actually LESS kids killing themselves today than there were 30 years ago and the least likely reason for a kid to commit suicide is bullying.
The actual bullying situation hasn't changed or gotten any worse over the past 30 years, so why is it suddenly such a front and center issue? I would venture that a large part of it has to do with perspectives changing and the encroachment of the overprotective parents.
I'm not picking on anyones personaly situation, merely pointing out that the rhetoric being spewed in no way matches the realities of bullying in 2011. The bullies today and bullying itself is no more pervasive today then it was in the 90's, 80's or even the 60's and 50's.
Also, despite admission from the people screaming from the rooftops about how evil bullies are, that the schools are powerless and the bullies can't be changed, they seem to simply want more punishment, more control, more discipline. The entire time ignoring the only real and practical solution that teaching their child to cope and overcome is the only way to end it for good.
Here are some articles on how overprotectiveness harms children:
Making sure your children are safe from verbal and physical harm is not overprotection- it's good parenting. I will not be passive about my child being taunted or ridiculed by anyone. We can tell our children to walk away, ignore them, smile, laugh along, try to make friends, but that only prolongs the bullying because bullies only recognize strength. Last year, my 3rd grade d was bullyied. I tried all of the conventional methods, tried to have her deal with the situation on her own terms. I went to the mother and asked for her assistance. She felt my child was too sensitive and should toughen up. Finally after 4 months, I went to my d's teacher and let her know if the situation wasn't fixed by the end of the week, I would be sitting in on every single class, every single day. It ended that day. My children are mine and people better think twice before they attempt to harm them in any fashion.
Bullies will learn not to bully when one of their "victims" hauls off and rearranges their face.
Also, I thought the whole problem these days wasn't physical bullying, but mental bullying. Name calling, gossip, rumors, etc. all fueled in part by how easy it is through the wonders of tehcnology to do it virtually anonymously. You know what name calling, gossip and rumors are called in the real world? Life. Learn to deal with it.
Mental bullying can be a lot more subtle. It can even be just ostracizing the victim socially. How can teachers or principals control that?
It's easy enough to make sure there are no playground fights, no punching and prosecute physical assault but when it comes to on-line bullying, it's up to parents to monitor computer use in the home. Keep the computer in a public room or at least make sure kids aren't going on the chats and posting web pages to invite that kind of thing. Or if parents allow a child to have a social web page, make them limit it to family members.
Sometimes it can just help for a child to have plenty of activities that aren't about school. Church groups, 4-H clubs, obedience classes with their dog, sports away from school, theater groups, volunteer activities - anything that is interesting and builds a life away from their schoolmates so that the kids at school aren't all-important.
Also let us not forget that there are no more bullies or bullying victims today than there were 30 years ago. There are actually LESS kids killing themselves today than there were 30 years ago and the least likely reason for a kid to commit suicide is bullying.
The actual bullying situation hasn't changed or gotten any worse over the past 30 years, so why is it suddenly such a front and center issue? I would venture that a large part of it has to do with perspectives changing and the encroachment of the overprotective parents.
I'm not picking on anyones personaly situation, merely pointing out that the rhetoric being spewed in no way matches the realities of bullying in 2011. The bullies today and bullying itself is no more pervasive today then it was in the 90's, 80's or even the 60's and 50's.
Also, despite admission from the people screaming from the rooftops about how evil bullies are, that the schools are powerless and the bullies can't be changed, they seem to simply want more punishment, more control, more discipline. The entire time ignoring the only real and practical solution that teaching their child to cope and overcome is the only way to end it for good.
Especially in the early grades, parents can get it wrong. Little kids don't act like adults and what might be seen as bullying behavior isn't always that.
When my kid was in 2nd grade, daily he would come home and complain about one particular kid. This kid would make fun of things he said, and slug him. If they were standing in line, this kid would go by and slug my kid, pass him in the hall and punch him. Every day it was something else about this mean boy.
I told him just to ignore this kid, make friends with other kids but it continued. Then one day my son comes home and asks if this same kid could come over and play and I said isn't that kid your enemy and he said it turned out the kid wasn't mean after all, he was just trying to make him notice him so they could be friends. They became best friends for years.
Kids from families where teasing is done can actually tease kids they like but a kid who didn't grow up with any teasing might not understand teasing.
Also let us not forget that there are no more bullies or bullying victims today than there were 30 years ago. There are actually LESS kids killing themselves today than there were 30 years ago and the least likely reason for a kid to commit suicide is bullying.
The actual bullying situation hasn't changed or gotten any worse over the past 30 years, so why is it suddenly such a front and center issue? I would venture that a large part of it has to do with perspectives changing and the encroachment of the overprotective parents. You are absolutely right, perspectives have changed in the last 30 years. At one time bullying was judged as normal childhood behavior. Now, parents have realized the damage systemtic bullying can do to a child.The desire to make your children safe from harm isn't overprotection.
I'm not picking on anyones personaly situation, merely pointing out that the rhetoric being spewed in no way matches the realities of bullying in 2011. The bullies today and bullying itself is no more pervasive today then it was in the 90's, 80's or even the 60's and 50's. The fact that bullying has been with us since the dawn of time doesn't mean it should be accepted.
Also, despite admission from the people screaming from the rooftops about how evil bullies are, that the schools are powerless and the bullies can't be changed, they seem to simply want more punishment, more control, more discipline. The entire time ignoring the only real and practical solution that teaching their child to cope and overcome is the only way to end it for good.
A child should be punished for bad behavior, otherwise they grow up to be "bad" adults. "Coping and overcoming" won't change some one else's behavior. Only dealing directly with the situation and explaining in terms they understand that the behavior they are demonstrating will not be accepted will change their ways. Bullies understand strength, adults have strength, children do not.
A child should be punished for bad behavior, otherwise they grow up to be "bad" adults. "Coping and overcoming" won't change some one else's behavior. Only dealing directly with the situation and explaining in terms they understand that the behavior they are demonstrating will not be accepted will change their ways. Bullies understand strength, adults have strength, children do not.
Yes a child should be corrected but that's not always going to be the case. It's best to provide armor and a sword (figuratively speaking) to the victim so he doesn't have to be a victim.
Children can have strength -- however I don't mean for physical assault. Physical assault is not acceptable.
Yes a child should be corrected but that's not always going to be the case. It's best to provide armor and a sword (figuratively speaking) to the victim so he doesn't have to be a victim.
Children can have strength -- however I don't mean for physical assault. Physical assault is not acceptable.
Why isn't physical assault acceptable? Verbal and emotional abuse are deemed fine as long as it occurs between children, so physical should be as well. If my children were being victimized by an adult, I would be villified if I didn't step in, so how is it any different when it is a child who is more aggressive or physically larger.
I guess if I'm showing my daughter that I'm here for her, she can come to me, I will "have her back", etc means I'm "overprotective".
For those of you who just shove your children into the world and won't utter a word to any authority figure when your child is being harassed or tormented? Or think it's OK for your child to physically assault someone? That's great for you. Great. I'm sure your "hands off" parenting approach will serve your child very well in future years.
I guess if I'm showing my daughter that I'm here for her, she can come to me, I will "have her back", etc means I'm "overprotective".
I was always here for my children, still am. They certainly came to me whenever they had a problem too.
I wasn't uninvolved. I was just involved differently---via mentoring, guidance, advice, encouragement and emotional support.
The articles say that parents who interfere take care of the problems for their children, instead of letting their children learn how to deal with it, are causing their children to become victims.
In the long run, yeah, you're doing more harm than good even though it makes you feel better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mainerwoman
Making sure your children are safe from verbal and physical harm is not overprotection- it's good parenting.
Did you read the articles? Especially the last two that specifically addressed bully and victim personalities? And how parents who intervene actually cause children to become victims?
Quote:
Originally Posted by omigawd
That's great for you. Great. I'm sure your "hands off" parenting approach will serve your child very well in future years.
You're forgetting that many of us have already raised our children into adulthood. We already know the outcome of our parenting style.
It's not a "hands off" parenting style. I've always been very involved in helping my children learn skills.
In a way, your way of handling problems for them is more of a "hands off" approach. It's so much easier to do it for them than to take the time to teach them.
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