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In post 353 you say that you grant people respect based on their character. In many other posts you say that you do not respect housewives without kids. It follows that you do not respect these housewives because of their character. You didn't say it directly, but that is how I made the connection.
What I said was I was raised to respect people based on their actions (what they do not their career) AND their character. I am sorry if your misconstrued that but it was not my intention to imply that I know that womans character in the slightest.
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Agreed. But when the kids are at school most of the day it does become less exhausting. It is interesting that I find that my son's senior year of high school is the year that he is needing mom at home the most. He is very stressed out over college applications, yearbook pictures, etc...and it seeking my input on important things much more than he did when he was smaller.
Yesterday he called me in a panic during his lunch to see if I was at home (I wasn't) because he was confused about the paperwork he needed to fill out for the yearbook. Today he came home for lunch and ate with me!
I know parents who actually have to hire consultants to help them and the kids with all of the jumping through hoops college application have become. It was overwhelming for my daughter and me last year and I only let her apply to three schools. I really do not understand how schools expect kids to do it on their own.
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I think there is a distinction and that raising children is more important than having a spotless house (I don't have one of those and I do have the time). However, I do see value in each family making sure its own home/family are cared for. If more people did that there would be much less need for the rest of the people in the world to take up the slack through social services. I believe in giving to those who have less but I also believe in taking care of one's own family first.
Good point. I did not mean to imply that you should sacrifice your own family to help others. So many people who work either as SAHMs or in a job go out of their way to make time for helping people one way or another it is hard for me to respect others who have so much more time and resources who CHOOSE not to.
And how exactly are you implying that I choose not to help anyone?
I play music for the enjoyment of other people, which is music therapy. I don't hesitate to help my friends and support them. I would help out a neighbor in need in a second. I help out my husband by making his life easier. Why do you require SAHMs to do a ton of volunteering exactly? Do you require paid workers to spend their free time volunteering too? Spending time with family isn't good enough?
As I pointed out, there is a ton more to homemaking than cleaning and cooking. I don't require other people to make the same choices in life as me or think like I do even if I may respectfully disagree with them, that is the difference between Lkb, Rkb and me, hence my beef with some feminists that keep saying it's about choice, yes their choices! I guess I also view myself as a mother with imaginary children, lol.
And how exactly are you implying that I choose not to help anyone?
I play music for the enjoyment of other people, which is music therapy. I don't hesitate to help my friends and support them. I would help out a neighbor in need in a second. I help out my husband by making his life easier. Why do you require SAHMs to do a ton of volunteering exactly? Do you require paid workers to spend their free time volunteering too? Spending time with family isn't good enough?
As I pointed out, there is a ton more to homemaking than cleaning and cooking. I don't require other people to make the same choices in life as me or think like I do even if I may respectfully disagree with them, that is the difference between Lkb, Rkb and me, hence my beef with some feminists that keep saying it's about choice, yes their choices! I guess I also view myself as a mother with imaginary children, lol.
According to the list that YOU made for us, everything you do in a typical day is for yourself or your husband. As I said - fine, if that's what you want to do, but don't expect kudos from people outside your household. Are you asking me why I "require" SAHM to volunteer? I never said that I think my post you are referring to was made to tone down what the other poster was trying to say. She's being quite a bit more judgmental than I am. The part I bolded confuses me. You are NOT a mom. Don't even joke about it. Your head will spin around the day you try to maintain your current housekeeping standards with a baby needing to be fed and changed all day long.
And how exactly are you implying that I choose not to help anyone?
I play music for the enjoyment of other people, which is music therapy. I don't hesitate to help my friends and support them. I would help out a neighbor in need in a second. I help out my husband by making his life easier. Why do you require SAHMs to do a ton of volunteering exactly? Do you require paid workers to spend their free time volunteering too? Spending time with family isn't good enough?
As I pointed out, there is a ton more to homemaking than cleaning and cooking. I don't require other people to make the same choices in life as me or think like I do even if I may respectfully disagree with them, that is the difference between Lkb, Rkb and me, hence my beef with some feminists that keep saying it's about choice, yes their choices! I guess I also view myself as a mother with imaginary children, lol.
See this really pisses me off.
This isn't about feminism, it isn't about your gender, it is about the fact you demanded praise from society for what you do for your husband y, about the fact you keep referring to yourself as a mother when you are not one, and the fact that until all the other women on this board started talking about volunteerism you posted a list of chores when asked how you spend your day. Strangely the "helping others" was nowhere to be found while your list of soap making and hubby pampering was how you presented yourself until it was convenient to do otherwise. I am glad you share your boundless gifts, talents and good fortune with others, its literally the least a good person would do.
If you were a man, and made the statements you have about your education and talents and then proceed to give a list of self serving chores when asked about what you do with all of those blessings, I would have had the exact same opinion.
The reason you have the CHOICE to stay home and do whatever it is you do, is because FEMINISTS fought for it. That is the only way that feminism enters into this debate.
The true roots of feminism aren't really in choice, at least as I understand it. In the very beginning, feminism was more about demanding respect for work that appeared to have little value in male-dominated '50s culture.
The reason you have the CHOICE to stay home and do whatever it is you do, is because FEMINISTS fought for it
And you don't find it the teensiest bit ironic that the CHOICE that was fought for is now something you're diminishing simply because it isn't the choice you think is appropriate?
The true roots of feminism aren't really in choice, at least as I understand it. In the very beginning, feminism was more about demanding respect for work that appeared to have little value in male-dominated '50s culture.
I'm confused by that statement as well. The feminist movement that I lived through was about breaking the glass ceiling. Being able to have jobs that were traditionally "male". Equal pay for equal work.
Women were ALREADY at home. No one was demanding equal rights so they could continue to stay at home. Feminism was about getting OUT of the house.
And you don't find it the teensiest bit ironic that the CHOICE that was fought for is now something you're diminishing simply because it isn't the choice you think is appropriate?
Nope because it is not her choice to not have a job I have an issue with. I have stated this to you a dozen times. You refuse to believe that my issue is with the fact that the way she originally presented herself was as someone who has many gifts and did nothing with them beyond a house and a spouse.
Feminists were not fighting against that because it isn't a gender issue. Its a human issue. My issue is not with the not working, as evidenced by my deep and abiding respect for SAHMs. If you cannot see past that the issue is with you and not me.
And you don't find it the teensiest bit ironic that the CHOICE that was fought for is now something you're diminishing simply because it isn't the choice you think is appropriate?
That is exactly my point! Men in the past were wrong in being power hungry and treating women like second class citizens. Laws needed to be made, women needed to be allowed to vote and do any job they want. Many feminists value homemakers with or without kids as much as working women as it is an equal choice in their views. Then came some power hungry radical feminists who wanted to replace patriarchy with matriarchy and decided to tell other women what to do, going as far as belittling them. How is that better than the mysoginist idiots who bossed their wives around??
No, I didn't feel the need to say I volunteer at first. I have two volunteer jobs actually that I do from home and am happy to help so many with my time, support and compassion.
I know parents who actually have to hire consultants to help them and the kids with all of the jumping through hoops college application have become. It was overwhelming for my daughter and me last year and I only let her apply to three schools. I really do not understand how schools expect kids to do it on their own.
I can understand why a parent would hire a consultant. We won't because we get a lot of support from the school. However, the process is stressful and confusing. Throw in athletic recruitment with the slimy coaches and you have total confusion.
Good point. I did not mean to imply that you should sacrifice your own family to help others. So many people who work either as SAHMs or in a job go out of their way to make time for helping people one way or another it is hard for me to respect others who have so much more time and resources who CHOOSE not to.
I do think that people should help each other, especially when they have more, as we do. However, there are so many people that do not take care of their own family that you really do need to count caring for your own family as a contribution to society.
I know a middle class guy who takes care of 3 other kids nearly full time. He picks them up, takes them to practice, makes sure they have drinks, pays their registration fees and treats him like his own child. If all their parents did was take care of them they would be contributing to society. I do think that caring for your own family (no matter how many people that is) is something that should be considered productive.
Last edited by Momma_bear; 09-15-2011 at 08:09 PM..
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I think my post you are referring to was made to tone down what the other poster was trying to say. She's being quite a bit more judgmental than I am. The part I bolded confuses me. You are NOT a mom. Don't even joke about it. Your head will spin around the day you try to maintain your current housekeeping standards with a baby needing to be fed and changed all day long.
Men in the past were wrong in being power hungry and treating women like second class citizens. Laws needed to be made, women needed to be allowed to vote and do any job they want. Many feminists value homemakers with or without kids as much as working women as it is an equal choice in their views. Then came some power hungry radical feminists who wanted to replace patriarchy with matriarchy and decided to tell other women what to do, going as far as belittling them. How is that better than the mysoginist idiots who bossed their wives around?? 