Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
When I'm in areas that aren't as affluent, there is far less disrespect towards adults. In those places I see far fewer kids who think they rule the roost, etc.
That's interesting. So if affluence is a common factor in the disrespectful kids that people are seeing I wonder what common factors relating to affluence are contributing to the problem?
Or perhaps you are thinking too little. Who knows. When you say things like equal, one might be inclined to be super clear that kinds of meaning that might have in the absence of anything clear from you.
Wow. I dont consider my kids equal to me. I would never trust my 8yo son with my budget or my car or seek advice in career choices Kids are kids no matter what you say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew
Is there anyone else in the world that you would say you treat with dignity and respect and still hit? I consider dignty and respect to be entirely mutually exclusive from hitting.
No. You only love your kids so much that you do things that you don't like to do but they have to be done.
When I had to slap my kid's butt seeing his face and eyes hurt me more than the slap hurt him. I am sure, I know how hard I was hitting.
But it HAD to be done. That's love: sacrificing your feelings for somebody else's well-being.
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew
In my opinion, obedience without question is both mutually exclusive from dignity and respect and hardly the best thing to teach a child. When you teach to obey without question, you don't teach to thiknk for themselves, to solve problems. Do so because *I said* or do so because it is right and here is why. For sure you have to do so. And failure to do so will have its own consequences. If they are smart, parents realize that they don't HAVE to look for arbitrary consequences like hitting since the misbehavior almost always has its own.
Do you really expect the 5 or even 12 yo to fully understand implications of his/her actions? If you do you are not smarter then them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew
I don't WANT to raise little lemmings, little obedient soldiers. Whom will then obey when I am done with them? I don't want obedience to Hitler, Jim Jones, the local gang leader. I want emotionally and mentally strong people with character, integrity, problem solving skills, enlightened self interest, compassion. Obedience can't get you those.
Good luck Hopefully you'll get all of that and not another spineless junkie. I think you are a women and on top of that with some father/authority issues which you are now, unconsciously, taking on your kids. Or you are single mother and because you are only you tend to treat your kids more like your life partners than your kids just so you could have some company.
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew
That is what respect means. You are the father, you are to be obeyed without question. (Sounds more like you want to be god to me, but there it is.) What does respect for THEM look like since you claim to treat them with dignity and respect.
I am not god but I am the father. I am responsible for their well being. My word is enough.
If I tell you to stop putting that metal pin in the electric outlet I expect you stop immediately and not after the ambulance arrives. If I tell you not to take my car keys I don't want an hour long argument or you taking the keys when I can't see.
I am the father and I know better what is good for you.
Last edited by trialbyfire; 07-03-2012 at 12:54 PM..
[quote=trialbyfire;25009207]Wow. I dont consider my kids equal to me. I would never trust my 8yo son with my budget or my car or seek advice in career choices Kids are kids no matter what you say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trialbyfire
Of course my kids have the same human value
There is a reason I called out a very specific meaning of the word equal. Equality does not mean sameness.
Quote:
Good luck Hopefully you'll get all of that and not another spineless junkie.
Likewise. Hopefully you'll get something other than either a passive, lemming or an aggressive, rebel.
Not all neighborhoods are as homogeneous as yours. Mine is mix of middle/lower middle class and poor. There are many people who live in my neighborhood because it's where they grew up and where their parents and grandparents grew up. Many choose to live here because it's walkable and near public transport. Some live here because it's near their work or college. Many others live here because it's affordable. Some live here because they like the architecture, etc. I can't imagine anyone would choose this neighborhood for the schools which are average to below average when it comes to test scores. I think that the neighborhoods with the top schools are more homogeneous because people choose them for the schools. The neighborhoods with mediocre schools are more diverse in their populations. Anyways, back to the topic at hand....
I agree with you that peers have a strong influence on one another especially when they spend vast amounts of time together in daycare, school, after school care, etc. I also think that children and teens (and adults) are influenced by media and our consumer oriented culture. I don't agree that there is a pervasive problem of permissive parents teaching their children that they are special. I also disagree that this is a major and new problem of disrespectful children.
Define homogeneous. When you picked your neighborhood, you chose to send your kids to the same schools that your neighbor's send theirs to. In so doing you chose to have your children grow up in the same kind of environment theirs do. You, obviously, have the same taste as your neighbors or the same income limitations since you chose houses/living arrangements in the same neighborhood. You likely have similar lifestyles as well. Your house may cost a bit more or a bit less but something about where you live attracted you to the area...just as it did for your neighbors....and the ones who are there because they grew up there are even more rooted in that neighborhood. If they weren't they would have left. They chose to stay in spite of knowing the downfalls of living there.
That said, there is nothing wrong with belonging. We all want to belong. That's why we form neighborhoods, join churches and other groups. We have a need to fit in. To be around people who are like us. Our neighbors being so much like us though masks that it is our children's peer group that has the final decision not us. If we've done well, we chose a peer group that mirrors the values we have. If we didn't (think gang influence for one...) we'll have a one hell of a time pulling our kids back and it will probably take uprooting them and moving them completely out of the area to do it.
Haven't you ever wondered how fortune tellers can be so accurate? The truth is, they only need a few facts about us to know which category we fit in. We tend to gather with people who are more like us than not like us.
A really good book to read is "The Nurture Assumption".
Isn't there a common ground between the polarities? One thing I noticed with the rather horrible child I spoke of earlier was that from the earliest age his mom and grandmother always offered explanations to him when he acted up. They would never categorically deny him. They'd talk about why his behavior was bad and why he should stop. Intuitively, that seemed a good approach.
However, he grew up accustomed receiving rationales, to being treated like an equal. Their "no" was always up for debate. Even when he's obviously wrong he feels entitled to take the last word. He's indulged. He's now spoiled. He's self-centered. He's inconsiderate.
Up to a certain age, I think "because I said so" with a curt reason is perfectly fine. Emotional maturity varies, but when my parents finally did start explaining their decisions in depth, I felt I had finally made a passage into semi-adulthood, where I could never presume it before. It was a landmark that I could internalize. Maybe disrespectful kids at heart are presuming a true and lasting adulthood too far before their time.
I missed this. I am not sure what threats you see lurking around every corner. Even if you DO hit your kids, you STILL need to supervise you toddler in the front yard. So what does hitting the kid get you?
My 4yo son decided he doesn't need his food so he slapped my wife across the face. I slapped his but. Once. I told him why. Made him apologize. He never did it again. He knew hitting mom was bad but now he also knows how to control his temper and that his bad behavior will not be tolerated. I love my son too much to let him grow up to be inconsiderate and disrespectful.
That's interesting. So if affluence is a common factor in the disrespectful kids that people are seeing I wonder what common factors relating to affluence are contributing to the problem?
That's interesting. So if affluence is a common factor in the disrespectful kids that people are seeing I wonder what common factors relating to affluence are contributing to the problem?
I don't think affluence is a common factor. It's too blanket a statement and there are too many exceptions.
I don't think affluence is a common factor. It's too blanket a statement and there are too many exceptions.
It is going to be different across different populations. There does not seem to be any economic commonality among or between families with permissive do nothing parents and more effective parents around here.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Kids are kids no matter what you say.
