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Sorry, but I don't listen to right-wing conspiracy jargon. Again, the whole ''I don't want to hear this'' or ''I don't believe this'' or ''this upsets me'' so no one is allowed to state it in an otherwise open forum. No one can have a different opinion and if you do, you're childly dismissed as a right-wing conspiracy kook and then a campaign to be banned is started...so f'd up.
Krasner is a liar and a cultural marxist. I don't need Fox News or right-wing conspiracists to see this, thank you. Keep voting in your looney left Philly progressives candidates and then complain that the quality of life in Philly is heading downward. Connect the dots.
However:
Marxism is an economic theory, not a cultural one.
What you are witnessing in the culture could be called pluralism run amok, but there's nothing Marxist about it.
And it is true that just about every social reformer who has led a protest movement in this country since 1950 or thereabouts has been labeled "communist" by right-wingers (and Communism — a political as well as economic system — does originate with Marx). BR Valentine had that right.
Now, the problem with the American left is: Our belief that the state can be a force for good and a check on the excesses and inequalities a capitalist economy (which most of us support) produces does overlap with the Marxist critique of capitalism. And that makes it hard for left-leaning organizations to keep the Marxists out, just as it's hard for right-leaning organizations to keep the anti-Semites and white supremacists out.
As for what all this has to do with culture: Not a whit, as far as I can tell, even though we've had works that deal with this subject like Oscar Wilde's "The Soul of Man under Socialism" (his socialism was Fabian rather than Marxist, though). Most of the culture-war stuff would exist even absent an economic debate; the fact that the founders of the Movement for Black Lives are self-described socialists does not make the millions (including the corporate executives) who have either marched behind the BLM banner or expressed sympathy for the cause Marxists — the overwhelming bulk of them aren't.
Maybe but the culture that deemphasizes the individual for the collective springs from Marxism.
I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean in the context of this discussion. When right wingers talk about "cultural marxism" they are not talking about the culture of Marxism, they are talking about a conspiracy theory that is essentially that the Jewish Philosophers who fled Germany during WW2 settled in New York and decided the better way to attach capitalism was to subvert its morality and thus have been working in secret all these years since. It is a vague enough idea that it can be applied to anybody right wingers don't like. It is an intellectually lazy way for right wingers to avoid considering ideas they disagree with by dismissing it as part of some nefarious plot to destroy America. It is a conveniently just racist enough to permit deniability.
I too roll my eyes at local figures like Ernest Owens, Helen Gym, Krasner, etc. But they can be critiqued in their own right without attaching yourself to a long standing conspiracy theory that has oppose civil rights, opposed marriage and all gender equality, and has claimed cultural marxism is "jewishly motivated." I rather critique from the middle than deal with either side's nonsense.
I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean in the context of this discussion. When right wingers talk about "cultural marxism" they are not talking about the culture of Marxism, they are talking about a conspiracy theory that is essentially that the Jewish Philosophers who fled Germany during WW2 settled in New York and decided the better way to attach capitalism was to subvert its morality and thus have been working in secret all these years since. It is a vague enough idea that it can be applied to anybody right wingers don't like. It is an intellectually lazy way for right wingers to avoid considering ideas they disagree with by dismissing it as part of some nefarious plot to destroy America. It is a conveniently just racist enough to permit deniability.
I too roll my eyes at local figures like Ernest Owens, Helen Gym, Krasner, etc. But they can be critiqued in their own right without attaching yourself to a long standing conspiracy theory that has oppose civil rights, opposed marriage and all gender equality, and has claimed cultural marxism is "jewishly motivated." I rather critique from the middle than deal with either side's nonsense.
All right, good luck with all that which I agree is tinfoil hat territory. There is a cultural shift happening and I think you and I both agree that it's happening without needing to use terms that are more loaded than what we are intending to communicate. Does that make sense?
All right, good luck with all that which I agree is tinfoil hat territory. There is a cultural shift happening and I think you and I both agree that it's happening without needing to use terms that are more loaded than what we are intending to communicate. Does that make sense?
There is never not a cultural shift happening. Culture has never been static. What specifically are you complaining about? What I am concerned about is what I perceive as a widespread breakdown of discourse and the inability of either side to consider ideas they don't like. The left tends to attack whatever privilege the messenger has and the right associates the idea whatever their conspiracy theory of choice is.
I will say that I am trouble by the resurgence of of violent rhetoric on the left (constant references guillotines, saying "even liberals will get the bullet") just as I am concerned with the rights courting of fascists, cultists and conspiracy loons. In Philadelphia the leftwing nonjobs are the bigger problem, in the country as a whole I am not so sure.
Marxism is an economic theory, not a cultural one.
What you are witnessing in the culture could be called pluralism run amok, but there's nothing Marxist about it.
And it is true that just about every social reformer who has led a protest movement in this country since 1950 or thereabouts has been labeled "communist" by right-wingers (and Communism — a political as well as economic system — does originate with Marx). BR Valentine had that right.
Now, the problem with the American left is: Our belief that the state can be a force for good and a check on the excesses and inequalities a capitalist economy (which most of us support) produces does overlap with the Marxist critique of capitalism. And that makes it hard for left-leaning organizations to keep the Marxists out, just as it's hard for right-leaning organizations to keep the anti-Semites and white supremacists out.
As for what all this has to do with culture: Not a whit, as far as I can tell, even though we've had works that deal with this subject like Oscar Wilde's "The Soul of Man under Socialism" (his socialism was Fabian rather than Marxist, though). Most of the culture-war stuff would exist even absent an economic debate; the fact that the founders of the Movement for Black Lives are self-described socialists does not make the millions (including the corporate executives) who have either marched behind the BLM banner or expressed sympathy for the cause Marxists — the overwhelming bulk of them aren't.
Marxism is an economic theory.
I asked either in this thread or another about the origins of the anti-Columbus hysteria in the U.S. that was first heard about in the mid-'80s.
Where and when did the ''white privilege'' theory originate?
Why is communism so appealing to young Americans today, much of it is disguised as socialism of course. Then again the Nazis were disguised as socialists as well, imagine that.
Why was communist Bernie Sanders the leading contender for the 2020 Democratic Presidential nomination?
Why has Sanders continued to defend the oppressive Castro regime in Cuba? Why did Sanders celebrate the Soviet Union as a model for the world?...did this as well when he went to the Soviet Union in 1988 and had a drunken sing-a-long celebration with locals Soviets, espousing the virtues of their system...that collapsed in a heap 3 years later.
Why are young Americans obsessed only with right-wing totalitarianism ie. Nazis? Never a mention of the destruction and death wrought by left-wing totalitarianism. A picture of Hitler will send them to a medicated ''safe zone'' yet mass murderers like Stalin or Mao remain unknown to them and the Che Guevara icon is celebrated. Try waiving that around in Cuba today, a socialist country that saw anti-regime demonstrators waiving American flags.
The ''Culture Wars'' have been going on since the '60s though but now there is an economic element to it and theories like, for example, systemic racism are old marxist mantras.
Also, the BLM founders are self-described marxists yet the now resigned from BLM founder Patrice Cullors rationalized having a portfolio of real estate worth in excess of $4 million ''as helping her family''...the purchase of a $1.4 million home in L.A.'s Topanga-Malibu Canyon last March did her in though after BLM $90 million last year....local BLM Chapters wanted her head.
These contradictions are nothing new for marxists though as they always put themselves first line at the $$$ trough.
The key ingredient you left out about marching behind the BLM banner or expressing sympathy, especially among the corporate executives...is donating $$ to BLM. That's the whole point of the cleverly disguised BLM name...how can you not support it? and not give them what they're really after....$$$? Same goes for the non-existent ANTIFA...how can you be against or speak against an Anti-Fascist group?
Corporate America has caved to this ''woke'' culture and does not want the social media backlash...so they announce handing $$ over to BLM or staging kneeling events lasting as long as the MN cop had his knee on George Floyd's shoulder blade.
How could, of all places, Portland OR be the center of the BLM movement last year? A lily-white city in a lillier-white state?
What has happened to the BLM movement since last autumn though? Where are all those white people now? Poof..it's gone. Where is that $90 million? The local BLM chapters didn't get it, and they're ticked...and then Patrice Cullors bailed-out.
BLM is an opaque network of organizations/groups and uses different versions of the BLM name; who is Susan Rosenberg in Oakland CA? They made a nice white-guilt shakedown payout last year for sure.
Why did current BLM leadership defend the communist Castro regime last month?
The useful idiots of the 2020s.
and before the emotional adult-children start chiming in about being a right-winger ruining the internet, being a nazi, trying to get people banned, or some other kind of right wing underground nonsense....I don't watch Fox News...or being morphed into a racist, can't believe someone went the ****** race word , or an anti-semite...just an example of having people eliminated by resorting to using ''racist'' and I guess ''anti-semite'', the latter term being added as needed, as the progressive left embraces open anti-semitism. Anything to get someone shut-down.
Good Lord. All I did was attempt to weigh in on how Marxism is practiced and now I'm a complainer and potentially anti-Semitic according to you. Talk about having a chip on your shoulder. Later, I'm outta here.
Good Lord. All I did was attempt to weigh in on how Marxism is practiced and now I'm a complainer and potentially anti-Semitic according to you. Talk about having a chip on your shoulder. Later, I'm outta here.
Toto, we're not in Kansas anymore.
Didn't mean complaining in a deragotory way. We are all complaining about the City here. You mentioned a "cultural shift" in a negative way. I was asking for specificity. Never called you an anti-semite nor do I have reason to believe you are one. Not sure why you think I have a chip on my shoulder either. I am the one that thinks both sides are crazy and that discourse would be better served by not parroting the language of conspiracy theorists.
Congrats you are the 1,000th person to make a wizard of OZ joke to me since I moved here.
I asked either in this thread or another about the origins of the anti-Columbus hysteria in the U.S. that was first heard about in the mid-'80s.
Where and when did the ''white privilege'' theory originate?
Why is communism so appealing to young Americans today, much of it is disguised as socialism of course. Then again the Nazis were disguised as socialists as well, imagine that.
Why was communist Bernie Sanders the leading contender for the 2020 Democratic Presidential nomination?
Why has Sanders continued to defend the oppressive Castro regime in Cuba? Why did Sanders celebrate the Soviet Union as a model for the world?...did this as well when he went to the Soviet Union in 1988 and had a drunken sing-a-long celebration with locals Soviets, espousing the virtues of their system...that collapsed in a heap 3 years later.
Why are young Americans obsessed only with right-wing totalitarianism ie. Nazis? Never a mention of the destruction and death wrought by left-wing totalitarianism. A picture of Hitler will send them to a medicated ''safe zone'' yet mass murderers like Stalin or Mao remain unknown to them and the Che Guevara icon is celebrated. Try waiving that around in Cuba today, a socialist country that saw anti-regime demonstrators waiving American flags.
The ''Culture Wars'' have been going on since the '60s though but now there is an economic element to it and theories like, for example, systemic racism are old marxist mantras.
Also, the BLM founders are self-described marxists yet the now resigned from BLM founder Patrice Cullors rationalized having a portfolio of real estate worth in excess of $4 million ''as helping her family''...the purchase of a $1.4 million home in L.A.'s Topanga-Malibu Canyon last March did her in though after BLM $90 million last year....local BLM Chapters wanted her head.
These contradictions are nothing new for marxists though as they always put themselves first line at the $$$ trough.
The key ingredient you left out about marching behind the BLM banner or expressing sympathy, especially among the corporate executives...is donating $$ to BLM. That's the whole point of the cleverly disguised BLM name...how can you not support it? and not give them what they're really after....$$$? Same goes for the non-existent ANTIFA...how can you be against or speak against an Anti-Fascist group?
Corporate America has caved to this ''woke'' culture and does not want the social media backlash...so they announce handing $$ over to BLM or staging kneeling events lasting as long as the MN cop had his knee on George Floyd's shoulder blade.
How could, of all places, Portland OR be the center of the BLM movement last year? A lily-white city in a lillier-white state?
What has happened to the BLM movement since last autumn though? Where are all those white people now? Poof..it's gone. Where is that $90 million? The local BLM chapters didn't get it, and they're ticked...and then Patrice Cullors bailed-out.
BLM is an opaque network of organizations/groups and uses different versions of the BLM name; who is Susan Rosenberg in Oakland CA? They made a nice white-guilt shakedown payout last year for sure.
Why did current BLM leadership defend the communist Castro regime last month?
The useful idiots of the 2020s.
and before the emotional adult-children start chiming in about being a right-winger ruining the internet, being a nazi, trying to get people banned, or some other kind of right wing underground nonsense....I don't watch Fox News...or being morphed into a racist, can't believe someone went the ****** race word , or an anti-semite...just an example of having people eliminated by resorting to using ''racist'' and I guess ''anti-semite'', the latter term being added as needed, as the progressive left embraces open anti-semitism. Anything to get someone shut-down.
That should question the sincerity of the movement and whose behind it. I recall reading an article on the co-founder buying several properties in white affluent sections of the city.
The movement itself appears to mean well seeking police reformation and social justice, but the motive behind it is another cash grab by greedy well-to-do people looking profit off of peoples emotion.
Congrats you are the 1,000th person to make a wizard of OZ joke to me since I moved here.
At least you moved here from Kansas.
I'm not from there, but plenty of folks hereabouts make that assumption when I do tell them where I'm from.
My response:
"If I were from Kansas City, Kansas, I would have said so."
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