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Sounds like you have forgotten about last year's regional rail debacle with the broken under- carriage mess.
What problem are you expecting on the subway here? A lot of stuff happens with MTA in NYC. Trains not running. Delays. People masturbating. Crazy people. Maybe you haven't been in NYC long enough to have had these experiences yet.
I actually knew a woman who lived in Westchester County and took the train and the IRT East Side subway to her Wall Street-area job every day; she once described an incident where, on a very crowded train, she felt something rubbing against her and turned around to find it was a guy masturbating on her.
That made me feel uncomfortable too. She still took the train and subway in, for what better alternative was there?
(For those of you who don't know, the IRT East Side (Lexington Avenue) line (4/5/6) is the most crowded of all the New York subway lines; it's actually well over capacity at peak hours, which is why that Second Avenue subway mattered so much.)
Sounds like you have forgotten about last year's regional rail debacle with the broken under- carriage mess.
What problem are you expecting on the subway here? A lot of stuff happens with MTA in NYC. Trains not running. Delays. People masturbating. Crazy people. Maybe you haven't been in NYC long enough to have had these experiences yet.
That is why I said the Regional Rail is usually reliable lol. I know when my parents go into the city (which is fairly often) they almost always park at Rose Valley Train Station and take the train right into town.
I just didn't like taking the subway, no particular reason... I wasn't afraid or anything, I prefer to walk or get ubers. I did have a car in Philadelphia too. And I have experienced the subways in NYC, every time I use it I see interesting displays of people to say the least (I never sit or touch anything), I prefer walking. I am not a fan of the subway in general, I take it when I need to be somewhere quick. And ubering in Manhattan is generally useless because of traffic.
The one plus of the NYC subways over Philly is that more normal people take advantage of them because its such a convenient way to travel. Philadelphia's tend to be a rowdier oftentimes thuggish crowd outside of the commuting rush.
I just didn't like taking the subway, no particular reason... I wasn't afraid or anything, I prefer to walk or get ubers. I did have a car in Philadelphia too. And I have experienced the subways in NYC, every time I use it I see interesting displays of people to say the least (I never sit or touch anything), I prefer walking. I am not a fan of the subway in general, I take it when I need to be somewhere quick. And ubering in Manhattan is generally useless because of traffic.
The one plus of the NYC subways over Philly is that more normal people take advantage of them because its such a convenient way to travel. Philadelphia's tend to be a rowdier oftentimes thuggish crowd outside of the commuting rush.
Well, I'm sure you've figured out by now that I'm a subway junkie (shoot, what's my posting/Twitter handle?), so I probably have a much higher tolerance level for the bizarre than the typical American.
But while I would say that the off-hours vibe on the Broad Street Line is noisier than it is at the peak, I wouldn't characterize it as "thuggish" - the most common entertainment I experience on that line takes the form of the breakdancers whose shtick plays on people's fears ("Your donations help keep us out of three places: the jailhouse, the poorhouse, and your house!") and the regular panhandlers who work the line, augmented by special guest stars on occasion.
The Market-Frankford Line is simply too crowded and its cars too small for the breakdancers to perform on them, so the entertainment there is pretty much restricted to the panhandlers.
About the only time I might characterize the crowds as "rowdy" is when school lets out.
Now the Market-Frankford Owl buses - those are a zoo. (Broad Street Owl buses are much, much quieter.)
Depending on where you live in Northwest Philly, you could probably still get by on one car. But you'd have to carefully situate yourself - just as you would if you live in the 'burbs, work in Center City and don't want to drive in to work. The key is finding a location convenient to public transit and within walking distance of a supermarket. Granted, such locations aren't all that abundant in the Northwest. I live in one, and have a very reasonable rent, but I suspect many of you reading this wouldn't want to make the choices I made - but I will also touch on this below.
We actually hit all of those checkmarks, the only issue being that the walking-distance supermarkets, while good for odds and ends, are too limited in selection and expensive for general grocery shopping. The bigger issue is that I work (generally, extended) business hours, while my wife, the suburban car commuter, works PM to AM shifts that are scheduled on different days each week (including some weekends). We could make it work if absolutely necessary, but given the free parking and (lower?) auto insurance rates, we can justify the expense to ourselves. Not so if we had to pay $200+ per month per car for parking, for starters...
We actually hit all of those checkmarks, the only issue being that the walking-distance supermarkets, while good for odds and ends, are too limited in selection and expensive for general grocery shopping. The bigger issue is that I work (generally, extended) business hours, while my wife, the suburban car commuter, works PM to AM shifts that are scheduled on different days each week (including some weekends). We could make it work if absolutely necessary, but given the free parking and (lower?) auto insurance rates, we can justify the expense to ourselves. Not so if we had to pay $200+ per month per car for parking, for starters...
I'm curious now: Germantown, Mt. Airy or Chestnut Hill?
Not at the current price differentials between comparable neighborhoods in Greater Center City and Manhattan - you'll still save a bundle even after adding on the cost of the monthly Acela pass.
But again, why waste over 2 hours each way on a commute every day. Getting to 30th St., waiting for the train, taking the train up there to Penn, and then having to walk/subway to wherever the office is (probably Lower Manhattan). That seems like a colossal waste of time for the negligible money you'd save.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan2013
Sure, they help the economy, but I don't think that we need them as much as we did in the past. Not only has the city's population been on the rise since 2006, but so has the city's median income. We would definitely take an economic hit if they decided to head elsewhere, but gone are the days where we planned and built structures solely to attract the money of suburbanites (ex. The Gallery). We also don't need to add more parking spaces, either. As the supply of parking in Center City has decreased over the years, so has the utilization of those spaces. This points to a previous oversupply of parking, which should continue to decrease until an equilibrium is reached.
Also, I think that more people would rather take SEPTA than deal with the price of parking, traffic, the PPA, etc. I live in Delaware County (until June 1st), and I take a bus, train, and the Broad Street Line going to and from the campus of Temple each day. The only thing that deters more people from taking SEPTA involves headways. I would bet money that ridership would increase significantly with more frequent (and later) headways. I take either the Media/Elwyn or Wilmington/Newark Line each day, and I will have to wait an hour during non-peak hours if I happen to miss a train.
The Gallery was not built to attract suburban residents. It was built to keep city residents from hopping on PATCO, then taking a bus or taxi to the Cherry Hill Mall.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan2013
The car isn't necessarily the problem; instead, the problem lies within certain residents and politicians who believe that parking is a right rather than a privilege. There is no way that a dense, urban, walkable city such as Philadelphia should alter its urban form to please motorists (especially those who don't even live in the city). Historic buildings should not be demolished for surface parking lots and urban highways. I-676 and I-95 are two examples of altering the urban fabric to accommodate motorists, which has led to a disconnection of Center City from the Delaware River waterfront and North Philly (this is being mended west of Broad). Center City is already the 2nd best urban core in the United States, and it will only become better once every surface parking lot is occupied with a building of sufficient density.
Honestly, I could care less if someone owns a car in the Far Northeast or parts of the Northwest, such as Roxborough; however, changing the urban fabric for cars can be a problem in the older, more urban parts of the city. If living in a dense, urban city is something that one desires, then car ownership may not be for them. There are plenty of alternatives, such as walking, biking, public transportation, and car-share services. Suburbanites who wish for parking should park at a Regional Rail station and take the train into the city. Suburbanites who want to change the city to accommodate cars are the worst kind of people, as they do not live in Philly.
If you don't like the Vine St Expressway, thank the residents of Chinatown for it, anyway. It was supposed to be a surface road, in the middle of a huge mess of surface lanes. There were islands, every two lanes, for pedestrians to stand while waiting for the cars to stop for a red light. That included small children from Chinatown, crossing the road to go to school.
If you don't like the Vine St Expressway, thank the residents of Chinatown for it, anyway. It was supposed to be a surface road, in the middle of a huge mess of surface lanes. There were islands, every two lanes, for pedestrians to stand while waiting for the cars to stop for a red light. That included small children from Chinatown, crossing the road to go to school.
I think the current day Vine St Expressway, while ugly and seemingly divisive, is much, much better than a Roosevelt Blvd-type layout where surface streets turn into drag races and little kids get killed. Depressed expressways don't have to divide communities, if select parts are capped as needed. A good example is I-696 which cuts through the inner ring suburbs of Detroit. When the route was chosen, it cut straight through a heavy Orthodox Jewish community. MDOT capped large sections of the freeway and built parks over top, specifically to accommodate the community. PennDOT should have done that with I-676 to begin with if division was a concern. I guess it's better late than never.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillytransplant13
I think the current day Vine St Expressway, while ugly and seemingly divisive, is much, much better than a Roosevelt Blvd-type layout where surface streets turn into drag races and little kids get killed. Depressed expressways don't have to divide communities, if select parts are capped as needed. A good example is I-696 which cuts through the inner ring suburbs of Detroit. When the route was chosen, it cut straight through a heavy Orthodox Jewish community. MDOT capped large sections of the freeway and built parks over top, specifically to accommodate the community. PennDOT should have done that with I-676 to begin with if division was a concern. I guess it's better late than never.
I don't think that the Vine St Expressway is divisive, but then, I used to see tiny little children from Chinatown running, in their Catholic school uniforms, dragging their bookbags, from island to island, trying to cross the street. Chinatown won. They got more than they dreamed of. The children cross, safely, at the cross streets. The excavation made jobs for archaeologists. A forgotten cemetery was found & those people were moved to a known cemetery.
It's much more attractive than what was there before.
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