Phiadelphia's Revitalization (Philadelphia, York, Franklin: condo, live in, fencing)

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

Maybe you enjoy driving through tunnels. I don't & don't know anyone who does. Most people do it if they have to, but don't wish for it. The people who have walked across it the most live in Chinatown. If they wanted it capped, they would have asked for it by now. Over the years there have been accidents that were easier to deal with because it's open.

Its not a matter of enjoyment, its a matter of improving the QOL and urban environment. Its unfortunate that you are under the mindset that development and planning should cater to the automobile and not the pedestrian or resident. (you're showing your age with that mindset too).


And people only walk over it when they have to, people don't just take a leisurely stroll over the Vine St Expressway because its not a pleasant experience, and until fairly recently it was pretty much no mans land once you crossed north of it. If that were capped with a new park or some sort of development built on top, that would connect the larger CC area and create so much more foot traffic and development north of the Vine.


Also, there are dozens of advocacy groups still active pushing for a total cap of the highway. And lets not be so simple minded, you don't always get what you ask for, if that were the case Philadelphia would be much better than it currently is. The state doesn't have/ doesn't want to pay the money to cap it, its not a matter or whether the people of Chinatown want it capped or not (and I am sure if you took a poll, it would go in favor of capping).


Clearly we do not agree on most topics, you have a very anti-urbanist, bland, low-rise, strip mall, station wagon mentality. I see walkability, development, high-rises, blending period of architecture, burying highways, new shopping, parks etc.. So I guess agree to disagree, I am just glad you are not on the city planning team.

[MB1562]

I can tell you as someone who walks across the VSE every single day after work, it is far from a pleasant experience. Cpomp is right in that capping it would go a long ways. It basically cut off Chinatown from the northern section and it is still a mostly barren, industrial wasteland up there.

[FKD19124]

Originally Posted by MB1562

Your thoughts are most profound...

oh and the 1 percent sales tax

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by cpomp

Its not a matter of enjoyment, its a matter of improving the QOL and urban environment. Its unfortunate that you are under the mindset that development and planning should cater to the automobile and not the pedestrian or resident. (you're showing your age with that mindset too).


And people only walk over it when they have to, people don't just take a leisurely stroll over the Vine St Expressway because its not a pleasant experience, and until fairly recently it was pretty much no mans land once you crossed north of it. If that were capped with a new park or some sort of development built on top, that would connect the larger CC area and create so much more foot traffic and development north of the Vine.


Also, there are dozens of advocacy groups still active pushing for a total cap of the highway. And lets not be so simple minded, you don't always get what you ask for, if that were the case Philadelphia would be much better than it currently is. The state doesn't have/ doesn't want to pay the money to cap it, its not a matter or whether the people of Chinatown want it capped or not (and I am sure if you took a poll, it would go in favor of capping).


Clearly we do not agree on most topics, you have a very anti-urbanist, bland, low-rise, strip mall, station wagon mentality. I see walkability, development, high-rises, blending period of architecture, burying highways, new shopping, parks etc.. So I guess agree to disagree, I am just glad you are not on the city planning team.

ROFLMAO! I don't have, never had, & will never own a station wagon. My preference for shopping was Center City, since I was a teenager, and I took PATCO to do that, once the line was open. When I worked at City Line & Monument & Wynnefield, I had no choice but to drive & I either drove the Vine Street Expressway or Vine Street. Before the expressway, I drove on Vine Street, if I was going somewhere that was inconvenient to get to from the PATCO line.

Do you have a clue what a mess it can be when an accident occurs in a tunnel or is it that you just don't care about other people?

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by MB1562

I can tell you as someone who walks across the VSE every single day after work, it is far from a pleasant experience. Cpomp is right in that capping it would go a long ways. It basically cut off Chinatown from the northern section and it is still a mostly barren, industrial wasteland up there.

Do you remember it before the expressway?

[car0401]

Can we please get back on track. This thread is for the discussion of revitalization in neighborhoods and the future of the city. Unless we are talking about public transportation in relation to how it revitalizes neighborhoods or the vine street expressway on how it stagnated the growth of Poplar and Callowhill then it should be in a different thread.

Conversations like setbacks on the 1600 block of Brandywine are more like what this thread is focused on. We should be looking at how neighborhoods are being rebuilt and what characteristics we want in them.

[car0401]

On the topic of set back I think it would be nice if we had some setback in the future, however 1600 brandywine has too much setback. It looks to be about 23ish feet deep which is far too much and the set back seems to be featureless. Something along the lines of the 2000 block of spruce has a little setback which makes room for pots and gives the house a little breathing space while still feeling urban.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9485...7i13312!8i6656

I also think that fenced albeit small setback could be good as long as the space is utilized and incorporates features like interesting fencing and small landscaping. Heres an example from bed-stuy

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6843...7i13312!8i6656


I think these more urban setbacks that incorporate features of the houses adds to the feel of neighborhoods and makes them more comfortable but integrated.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by car0401

Can we please get back on track. This thread is for the discussion of revitalization in neighborhoods and the future of the city. Unless we are talking about public transportation in relation to how it revitalizes neighborhoods or the vine street expressway on how it stagnated the growth of Poplar and Callowhill then it should be in a different thread.

Conversations like setbacks on the 1600 block of Brandywine are more like what this thread is focused on. We should be looking at how neighborhoods are being rebuilt and what characteristics we want in them.

Seen Downtown Boston pre- and post-Big Dig?

Burying and/or capping a highway can have a profound impact on the urban areas surrounding it.

Just as not burying or elevating one can. Just ask the residents of Society Hill who fought so hard to bury I-95 along the Delaware riverfront in the 1960s. (The fight got so intense Vice President Hubert Humphrey had to intervene. The residents got half a loaf in the form of the two small caps at Chestnut and Spruce streets.)

Maybe the conversation swung a little too far towards the effect of capping the Vine Expressway on the Vine Expressway, but it is relevant to the topic of reviving urban neighborhoods. Freeways and cities don't play nice with each other. If you're going to insist on sticking one of the former in one of the latter, you should do it in a way that causes the least harm to the city fabric.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Seen Downtown Boston pre- and post-Big Dig?

Burying and/or capping a highway can have a profound impact on the urban areas surrounding it.

Just as not burying or elevating one can. Just ask the residents of Society Hill who fought so hard to bury I-95 along the Delaware riverfront in the 1960s. (The fight got so intense Vice President Hubert Humphrey had to intervene. The residents got half a loaf in the form of the two small caps at Chestnut and Spruce streets.)

Maybe the conversation swung a little too far towards the effect of capping the Vine Expressway on the Vine Expressway, but it is relevant to the topic of reviving urban neighborhoods. Freeways and cities don't play nice with each other. If you're going to insist on sticking one of the former in one of the latter, you should do it in a way that causes the least harm to the city fabric.

Are you the poster who found & posted a picture of the old Vine St. setup? I remember someone did in a previous thread.

When there's an accident on the Vine Street Expressway, copters go overhead & report where the accident is & how bad it is, or if it's just a breakdown. You cannot do that with a tunnel. That's important to prevent gridlock. I remember a particularly bad problem on the road that was creating gridlock & because of the traffic reports & the reports from the overhead chopper, I knew to divert to local Vine Street & take West River Drive to work.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by cpomp

It should still be fully capped though. Regardless of whether its sunken or not, its not a pleasant experience to walk over the barren bridges loud traffic underneath. The cap would provide a continuous flow of development to the north.

Before the bridge reconstruction project I walked over at least one of those bridges every single day. It took about a minute to do so. Not bad at all.